[0.9 CO-OP] Planes

[Alex123]

I'd like to post some things that disturb me about the vehicles in CO-OP online and offline play, they mostly boil down to planes.

1. Bots in planes

Now I know bots are pretty stupid and that they need some help by giving them other hardware to at least be a bit competetive. But I think there is a bit off an overshoot regarding weapons power and the bots "visibility powers". The bombs carried by bot planes are too destructive. In armor, once a bot in a plane has seen you, you are dead. It will make flyovers till it can realease it's bombs which because of their high destructive force over a large area with six of these bombs means you can't escape. Dead is furthermore ensured by the bots lack of teamwork (duh).

Tied in to the above is their visibility. Often have I observed that while I'm walking on foot they spot me and the above bomb mania happens. Now I wouldn't say it would be impossible to spot a single soldier on the ground, but at least practically impossible.

2. Human players in bot planes

This is what I absolutely hate since it ruins gameplay sometimes. Some of them are clueless, but some others just use them to grief. The only downside to these botplanes is that a player can't look around in them, so with some good tactics you can get away from the clueless.
The griefers just use the extraordinary manouverability to get a kill and create havoc with these planes bombs. The bombs on their own have as said a large area of effect, and these planes carry six of them. It means that you can without effort clear out an area of everything the size of all the Kashan bunkers without even being accurate where you drop them.

Ideally I'd like to see no bot planes on CO-OP online, or make them unusable for human players, decrease bomb destructive powers and less visibilty for spotting infantry on foot for bots.

[ballard_44]

The bombs carried by bot planes are too destructive.

Same power as the multiplayer bombs, actually.

In armor, once a bot in a plane has seen you, you are dead. It will make flyovers till it can release it's bombs...which means you can't escape.

Killing you. Kind of the point is it not?
They have the ability to 'carpet bomb' and have umlimited ammo.
In other words, don't get caught with your pants down.

Now I know bots are pretty stupid and that they need some help by giving them other hardware to at least be a bit competetive.

This.
It's amazingly difficult to make these bots at least semi competitive.
NERFing them to make things easier for humans is ridiculous .

Tied in to the above is their visibility. Often have I observed that while I'm walking on foot they spot me and the above bomb mania happens.

Bots relay info to each other. The CAS jets don't fly that high.
If they have nothing better to destroy and you are walking in the open, chances are high they will be looking to off you.

Plus, bots don't drop bombs on infantry. If you were killed in that fashion it was targeting something else and you were just a bonus kill.

Human players in bot planes...yada, yada, yada

100% agree.
We are looking into changing this.

[Rissien]

Quote:
In armor, once a bot in a plane has seen you, you are dead. It will make flyovers till it can release it's bombs...which means you can't escape.

Killing you. Kind of the point is it not?
They have the ability to 'carpet bomb' and have umlimited ammo.
In other words, don't get caught with your pants down.

Think he means the fact that they can find you far easier than any human would. No human pilot would spot an infantry running across the open desert, the bots do and then hone right in on you and make flybys continuosly untill they get a proper angle to kill you or are killed, ive seen a Frogfoot crash tring to get an angle at my tank once, had another time where i was fine, but as soon as i fired off a shot jets were all over me.

About ariel vehicles period though, would be nice to have MP versions of choppers and jets available on their respective maps where bots cant take them. Was suggested previously about having choppers on raised platforms with ladders so only Humans can take them.

[Alex123]

Yes I mean what is said ^above^.

Offcourse I expect them trying to kill me, though it's a fact that once you shoot in armour, you'll die shortly after. Normally this threat would be alleviated with proper AA cover, but meh, it's bots your playing with. So not getting caught with your pants down is hard to do playing with bots vs bots. The only viable vehicle to drive and live afterwards are AAV's or supply trucks.

And yes you are right, they don't drop bombs on infantry but make strafing runs with their onboard cannon tirelessly and they mostly miss, whereas a real player would have difficulty pinpointing the infantrymen, not to speak of trying to do this with air threats in the theatre.

But let me make clear that I'm not trying to diss the work you have done with Co-op, I like it but in my opinion there are some unbalances right now caused by buffing bots in one area whereas it's not possible to do it in another due to programming constraints probably.

Regarding those multiplayer bombs/co-op bombs. I was under the impression they have a larger blast radius, and detonate differently (after a set time/distance traveled or hitting the ground). But it may be false due to bot planes being able to carry six of those.

I'd like to add that my experiences mostly stem from the Kashan map, where there is a minor issue in balance regarding MEC vs US airstrip. The MEC can land beside the airstrip (it's flat and even) whereas on the US side the ground next to the airstrip is sloped and uneven. This makes it hard to land since there are in most cases bot planes on the runway.

[ballard_44]

Offcourse I expect them trying to kill me, though it's a fact that once you shoot in armour, you'll die shortly after. Normally this threat would be alleviated with proper AA cover, but meh, it's bots your playing with.

If there is properly manned AAV (bot actually taking the gunner position), anything that flies will be vapor soon.
If you can, keep within 200 meters for protection.
For some reason they aren't 'afraid' of flares.
They just keep popping AA missiles until they hit.

If it weren't for some hardcoding by DICE, I'd have them picking up aircraft halfway across the map

whereas a real player would have difficulty pinpointing the infantrymen

Like i mentioned, bots communicate well with each other and 'hear' really well.
As far as their 'sight', it is a little over the top, but nothing i can do about that.

(after a set time/distance traveled or hitting the ground). But it may be false due to bot planes being able to carry six of those.

I apologize, you are correct about the timing.
They don't need to be 500 meters up to make the bombs 'live'.
In fact, you'll notice they can set themselves ablaze as they don't get out in time.

This will actually change and the bombs they drop will go back to their .87 settings.
More power, but less 'splash' damage.

I'd like to add that my experiences mostly stem from the Kashan map, where there is a minor issue in balance regarding MEC vs US airstrip.

In .87 there was actually 2 strips per side.
One had bot planes on them and the other was clear so humans could land and resupply.

When SP was integrated into MP, that went away causing the issues you mentioned.
In the update we have some ideas that should correct this.

[Pursketuli [FIN]]

It's really frustrating when AI attack plane spots your tank/apc. I mentioned that those planes afraid if you manage to hit them with APC chain gun. Most cases they try to maneuver away and then crash into ground.

Other very odd thing is that AI controlled fighters can dected handheld Stinger or Sa-7 Grail guys from distace, even they fly away you. If you try to gain a lock, AI will shoot you with aircraft gun with 100% accuary. That happened to me when I aimed Stinger against MiG-29. Same with HAT kit, if AI controlled aircraft sees you aiming the missile launcher towards enemy tank, aircraft drops bombs or shoots you with main gun. No change to suvive. It's really unreal and unfair that enemy dected and engages you so easily.

[3===SPECTER===3]

Theres not much you can do with that. the AI has like some extreme hatred for the player only. Ive had myself, alone, come up on the flank of the enemy in a firefight and they dont see me. The second I get like too close they wont worry about the 30 guys in front of them but instead on lil ol me whos just trying to pass by. Bottom line if the bot sees you next to another bot, you are priority, or thats what it seems and I dont think that can change.

[A_Mosquito]

If it weren't for some hardcoding by DICE, I'd have them picking up aircraft halfway across the map

.

I have bots shoot me down with an AAV from a good 600+ meters. Are they capable of holding a lock past 200 meters? And the bot missles seem to travel excessivly fast; taking me down in less then a second from the missle lock warning.

[A_Mosquito]

I'm not usually a jet pilot, but have tried practicing A10 CAS runs in a LAN with a few buddies... and my god is it supposed to be this frustrating with the Migs? There is absolutely nothing I can do to get them off my tail once they are there and the friendly bot jets don't help me out. You can't really out turn them and it seems like they're flying either slower or equal speed to you. Any advice?

Point your nose straight up and deploy flares two or three times. when you get to around 1200 meters, level off and look around for the Mig. they don't seem to follow you above 600 meters, so you're safe above that altitude. they will still fire at you if they're in the right position below you though.

[Moonlight]

taking me down in less then a second from the missle lock warning.

You hear the warning once you have been locked for about .5 second. This often means that a rocket is .3s from hitting your plane.

[A_Mosquito]

You hear the warning once you have been locked for about .5 second. This often means that a rocket is .3s from hitting your plane.

not very encouraging for pilots, since most human's reflexes are anywhere from .18sec to .5+ sec.

And just out of curiosity, does anyone know the speed of the AA rockets when fired. i.e. if aircraft is going 850kph, what would the missle's velocity be in kph?

[Moonlight]

not very encouraging for pilots, since most human's reflexes are anywhere from .18sec to .5+ sec.

The thing is to use flares as a precaution. Sure, if you hear a warning sound it's best to drop flares anyways + make a rapid turn... and pray. It also depends what is locking us. If that's a ground AA it means we shouldn't have been so low or should have dropped flares earlier when going for an attack run. If that was from an enemy plane- we should have seen it first.
Flares without pilot's cunning are meaningless.

[A_Mosquito]

The thing is to use flares as a precaution. Sure, if you hear a warning sound it's best to drop flares anyways + make a rapid turn... and pray. It also depends what is locking us. If that's a ground AA it means we shouldn't have been so low or should have dropped flares earlier when going for an attack run. If that was from an enemy plane- we should have seen it first.
Flares without pilot's cunning are meaningless.

I'll try these next time I play PR. thanks.

[Imchicken1]

The bot planes on the runway REALLY piss me off. Especially since the ground on either side of the runway is somewhat uneven for the Americans. I saw on the suggestions forum a thread to remodel the Kashan airstrips, but it was just the bubble of death more so. I think the Kashan airstrips should get a second runway, even if it's just for Co-op
(1 runway for the bots taking off, the other for human players landing and taking off)

[Hans Martin Slayer]

This is already fixed and will be in the next pr release.

[Imchicken1]

This is already fixed and will be in the next pr release.

Hoorayyy