FO on the edge of maps change

[Jigsaw]

Word.

Out of interest beta testers, did you build firebases at all?

It really amazes me that beta testers are posting gripes like this in general discussion. This strikes me as exactly the sort of thing that playtesting should catch. Perhaps the beta testing schedule needs to be looked at a bit.

Dtacs, i've called you on this before and you still don't seem to understand what the test team's role is. We test the fixes and look for bugs, for example regarding this specific change we were told that it was implemented and that it should be checked to make sure it is working. We tested this change on Silent Eagle, it was working, so we moved on to the next thing on the list. We don't play test, because playtesting is a massive task that 24 people cannot do effectively when this is a 64 player game.

Note the name of the team Truism, Beta Testing, not Play Testing.

I think that list should be released to the public so they can suggest things, y'know just so things as obvious as this get checked over.

Ya, thus removing the careful secrecy the development team have adopted in creating the mod that is key to how they work and any sense of surprise created by a new release

Then there should be another separate testing team for playing only...

There was. It was called the Stress Test Team and was made up from trusted clans when a release was close. It has been discontinued because nowhere near enough people showed up to make it worthwhile.

With that in mind, any release is basically for playtesting and issues get fixed later.

[Rissien]

Fallujah used to be one of our servers favored maps but now with the new fob/hideout change several members are actually asking to have the map removed from our server because hideouts cannot be placed anywhere near caches around the edges of the map. Smaller maps are also even further shrunk as all the fobs have to be placed somewhere in the center of the map.

[wood702]

Sorry I made a new thread. My input is,1oom on all maps would accomplish what your trying to do here. I belive you were making it that a FOB could be hit from all sides. The 200m thing is idiotic and not very well thought out.
Who plays CNC anyways? PLZ PLZ put a hot fix out for this asap! Game play has been destroyed on over half the maps in PR.

[snooggums]

On 4km maps I think its fine.

On 2km maps, maybe 100 meters would be better.

On 1km maps (Asad Khal, Fallujah, Korengal) maybe should just be zero, although especially korengal there is other issues than that...

This would be good, because right now you can't build a FOB in Dylym Village.

I think 200m on 4k, 75m on a 2km and 25m on a 1km would be good.

[mangeface]

This would be good, because right now you can't build a FOB in Dylym Village.

I think 200m on 4k, 75m on a 2km and 25m on a 1km would be good.

So, I'm guessing you where getting your *** kick on tacticalgamers server also.

[Oddsodz]

I Still fail (and I know I do) to understand why it is needed in the 1st place. I Can understand why you would want this on CnC mode. But for the rest, Well I think it's just silly.

What may I ask was the reasoning behind doing this I ask. What was the main benefit for doing such a change?

[dtacs]

Dtacs, i've called you on this before and you still don't seem to understand what the test team's role is. We test the fixes and look for bugs, for example regarding this specific change we were told that it was implemented and that it should be checked to make sure it is working. We tested this change on Silent Eagle, it was working, so we moved on to the next thing on the list. We don't play test, because playtesting is a massive task that 24 people cannot do effectively when this is a 64 player game.

I never said that you tested it to see if it had practical purpose. I do understand what the team does.

Ya, thus removing the careful secrecy the development team have adopted in creating the mod that is key to how they work and any sense of surprise created by a new release

What would you rather, the mystery box which could have something good or bad, or the alternative that you know is going to be good?

If they want 'OMG SURPRISE LOOK AT WHAT WE DID' why release a changelist?

There was. It was called the Stress Test Team and was made up from trusted clans when a release was close. It has been discontinued because nowhere near enough people showed up to make it worthwhile.

With that in mind, any release is basically for playtesting and issues get fixed later.

Its funny, cause people like myself and Truism seem interested. Especially if things like this are going to be reoccurring.

More voices all yelling at the same time, however, is not.

Separate threads attaining to different problems, serious ones can be looked over. This team, should it ever materialize, wouldn't be a ton of voices yelling, obviously maturity would be a prerequisite and not 'OMG WHY DID YOU MAKE THIS CHANGE????' thread titles wouldn't fly.

[Celestial1]

Its funny, cause people like myself and Truism seem interested. Especially if things like this are going to be reoccurring.

dtacs, really?

1) Please cut the accusing tone, these people aren't being paid to do a thing for you. It's volunteer work, not a job. Frankly, they owe you nothing, and this is still 0.9, not 1.0; you're basically still playing a BETA, not a full, finished game.

2) You may think you're interested now, but you'd soon fall out of wanting to do that when you realize you'd have to download the new release each time, and then no one else shows up, and so the test is canceled or rescheduled.
It would just be like playing PR except a lot more work and disappointment.

3) No one wants to work with someone who complains.



I think that the change, beside the >4km maps issue, is a good one. CNC benefits, regular AAS 4kms benefit; it makes it so that you must place the FOB in an area where it can be attacked.

[Oddsodz]

I think that the change, beside the >4km maps issue, is a good one. CNC benefits, regular AAS 4kms benefit; it makes it so that you must place the FOB in an area where it can be attacked.

But it takes away the art of making a safe FB for long flanking moves. Seems very silly to me. With no real benefit for anybody. I Have yet to see a good real reason for doing this change.

I Have also failed to see why a FB close to the edge of the map is a bad thing. I Don't really know of any places on a any map that can not be attacked if a FB is placed there.

[dtacs]

I'm not complaining Celestial, I had a look in the changelist and this wasn't there, so akin to Oddsodz I'm curious as to why this change has occurred. So far it would seem that it has negative repercussions, especially on 1km maps (even worse on Insurgency) where firebases are already struggling to stay up for more than 10 minutes. Insurgents can just constantly throw themselves at the firebase till it goes down. And the 'well you should be defending it' excuse is silly.

At least one playtester showing up is better than none, not all features have to have other players present

[Wild_Turkey09]

Its abit too much of a restriction, especially on maps like muttrah, gaza and fallujah. If it was more like 100 metres or something that would be ALOT better. This is from my experience as a PR player and I know alot of people share my opinion. I just think it should be alot short than it is now.

[Scr3amX2]

I don't really see the point in changing it in the first place.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

A playable area is a playable area, so FOBs should be build-able on the outskirts of the map.

[Rissien]

Not seeing what problem gave the need for this anyways. All Ive noticed its its caused problems instead.

[Celestial1]

But it takes away the art of making a safe FB for long flanking moves. Seems very silly to me. With no real benefit for anybody. I Have yet to see a good real reason for doing this change.

I Have also failed to see why a FB close to the edge of the map is a bad thing. I Don't really know of any places on a any map that can not be attacked if a FB is placed there.

What do you mean by "safe FB"?

You could place one in the corner of the map, and you have made it so that no one can attack you from 2 sides, or along the edge, and now you cannot be attacked from 1 side.

I'm not complaining Celestial, I had a look in the changelist and this wasn't there, so akin to Oddsodz I'm curious as to why this change has occurred.

And I quote:
"Forward Outposts can't be deployed too close to the edge of the map."

At least one playtester showing up is better than none, not all features have to have other players present

Beta testers can do those things. There's no need for a second beta testing team.

[Brummy]

It's okay, I agree. Those damn beta testers don't do jack, I mean how in earth could they not catch this.

This is just getting ridiculous.. This new FOB rule, the beta testers really messed up here. How could they not foresee the future and predict this horrible gameplay. PR is really destroyed now, I can't play it anymore.

As to how to fix it, I think 50m is just about what's needed on Fallujah and maps of such size.

[Psyrus]

H[=ElvishKnight;1319136']Not seeing what problem gave the need for this anyways. All Ive noticed its its caused problems instead.

+1 to this. I've already spilled my bile on BigD so I don't feel the need for a vitriolic rant here, but I agree with the sentiment contained within this thread. I do see Fuzzhead's "fix" as viable, but I will too ask:

What is the big problem that this addition solves?

In all my years of PR I've never once thought "man I wish they hadn't been able to build that firebase so close to the edge of the map"

[Smegburt_funkledink]

[Rudd]

[Jigsaw]

I never said that you tested it to see if it had practical purpose. I do understand what the team does.

The implication was there, in that you expected us to do so. Thats not what we do.

What would you rather, the mystery box which could have something good or bad, or the alternative that you know is going to be good?

If they want 'OMG SURPRISE LOOK AT WHAT WE DID' why release a changelist?

The mystery box.

The changelog is usually released just a couple of days before release, to keep the excitement up. What you're asking for is a complete list of changes and ability to download builds several weeks before an actual release.

Its funny, cause people like myself and Truism seem interested. Especially if things like this are going to be reoccurring.

You know what else is funny? That a couple dozen full clans were interested in the exact same thing in previous releases, the opportunity was given and no-one showed up to take advantage.

At least one playtester showing up is better than none, not all features have to have other players present

No, you're wrong. A playtest cannot be done properly with anything less than a full 64/64 server of people, anything less is meaningless because issues can and will come up on a full server that never announce themselves on a server with only 20 people on, let alone 1 person.

Hence why the 24 man beta test team do not do playtesting, even when there's just one of us on