No, it's not. There are words which, even when not said with the intention to insult someone, will lead to either a heavy infraction or an outright temp/perm ban on these forums.burghUK wrote:It's only racist if the intention is to insult. The fact anyone can be offended by a word unless said by someone of the same race is totally obscene and only proves that point.
I don't get upset when people call me a jock , it's just what we get called. no big deal.
A bit too much racism on the servers
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
[R-MOD]Jigsaw] I am drunk. I decided to come home early because I can''t realy seea nyithng. I hthknk i madea bad choicce.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
What Tarra said really. It depends on the context..
I love acting the role tbh, The amount of times I've screamed "GET SOME CHARLIE!" whilst I've been spraying the M60 wildly, because I think it's what a real soldier would've done fighting the NVA, So i just do it because I was partially drunk and found myself funny.
But, it depends again on a person to person basis. The clan I'm in, *NwA*, have a no tolerance stance to racism in any form, but I quite often name my NVA squad "Egg Fwy Wice", I don't see that as offensive, and nobody has mentioned to me that they did find it offensive. I even had someone FROM Vietnam tell me it was, and I quote "F**king hillarious man". Depends on who's saying and who's taking it.
I love acting the role tbh, The amount of times I've screamed "GET SOME CHARLIE!" whilst I've been spraying the M60 wildly, because I think it's what a real soldier would've done fighting the NVA, So i just do it because I was partially drunk and found myself funny.
But, it depends again on a person to person basis. The clan I'm in, *NwA*, have a no tolerance stance to racism in any form, but I quite often name my NVA squad "Egg Fwy Wice", I don't see that as offensive, and nobody has mentioned to me that they did find it offensive. I even had someone FROM Vietnam tell me it was, and I quote "F**king hillarious man". Depends on who's saying and who's taking it.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
I'm sure some of us are far more sensitive to the racism stuff than others, as Voodoo says - context is important.
I was raised with a supreme hatred of racial insults, since my mother was heavily discriminated against for being Jewish; she once had a dart thrown at her head (removed in A+E), a stanley knife at her throat for being a "Jewish C***", they wouldn't let her have a bible at school and a couple of times a patient refused to be treated by her on the grounds she was Jewish.
Though that last one has a good story too, a Saudi Arabian Muslim was on the ward, and demanded a non-Jewish nurse, the Doctor said "Sorry mate, we don't have any other nurses available tonight, and even if we did I wouldn't be inclined to grant this request", so my mum just did her best to nurse this guy. The next day he refused to let other nurses touch him, he wanted only his Jewish nurse hahaha.
Anyway my point is, I'm probably more sensitive than necessary; but my squadmates definately need to keep it toned down if I'm gonna work with them.
I was raised with a supreme hatred of racial insults, since my mother was heavily discriminated against for being Jewish; she once had a dart thrown at her head (removed in A+E), a stanley knife at her throat for being a "Jewish C***", they wouldn't let her have a bible at school and a couple of times a patient refused to be treated by her on the grounds she was Jewish.
Though that last one has a good story too, a Saudi Arabian Muslim was on the ward, and demanded a non-Jewish nurse, the Doctor said "Sorry mate, we don't have any other nurses available tonight, and even if we did I wouldn't be inclined to grant this request", so my mum just did her best to nurse this guy. The next day he refused to let other nurses touch him, he wanted only his Jewish nurse hahaha.
Anyway my point is, I'm probably more sensitive than necessary; but my squadmates definately need to keep it toned down if I'm gonna work with them.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
Little creepy, but Yeah I understand that, since I lived in Saudi Arabia xD.Rudd wrote:The next day he refused to let other nurses touch him, he wanted only his Jewish nurse hahaha.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
I do agree that "gook" and "charlie" are not particularly offensive. Almost EVERY serviceman in Vietnam used these terms, and even the author of a Vietnam War diary that I emailed who respects Asian people even used those terms during the war. Even JOHN MCCAIN used those terms.
However, there the amount of ignorance I've seen in ways saddens me. I've learned how pathetic and futile racism is.
People don't understand that each culture has its own merits, its own distinct characteristics that makes the world a much more richer and interesting place.
Even I, as a Korean-American, personally thought that the twang and the "chongs" of Chinese, Vietnamese, etc. were laughable at one point. The Korean and Japanese languages don't have the "ching chong" sound of sino-related languages.
However, I was absolutely retarded to think that. I realize that it's just the way they say things. The "ching chongs" that we foreigners hear are ABSOLUTELY normal to those people, and I've grown to respect Vietnam even more.
Even today as I played, someone was like: "Lang Chien sounds like some kind of Asian noodle soup."
I face palmed. The Vietnamese are a proud people with a long and distinct culture and history. They've fought foreigners for centuries, fighting to protect their sovereignty, especially China. Yes I personally would prefer a Vietnam that is democratic and free, yet I can't label the North Vietnamese communists led by Ho Chi Mihn as COMPLETE monsters.
Ho Chi Mihn had good intentions, and yes the NVA were our enemy, and yes, communism is pure EVIL (I 100% believe that), and yes the Vietcong committed numerous atrocities. Even some of the South Korean elderly that I know were veterans of the Vietnam War, fighting the communists.
However, in hindsight, South Vietnam was corrupt and futile. Ho Chi Mihn reunited Vietnam, and later, capitalist reforms helped turn the country from a third-world hellhole to a rapidly developing economy.
I respect the Vietnamese people, and I like how many of the Vietnamese have an affinity for Koreans. I hope that one day, the Communist party of Vietnam allows free and democratic elections, and that Vietnam will one day become a Republic.
However, there the amount of ignorance I've seen in ways saddens me. I've learned how pathetic and futile racism is.
People don't understand that each culture has its own merits, its own distinct characteristics that makes the world a much more richer and interesting place.
Even I, as a Korean-American, personally thought that the twang and the "chongs" of Chinese, Vietnamese, etc. were laughable at one point. The Korean and Japanese languages don't have the "ching chong" sound of sino-related languages.
However, I was absolutely retarded to think that. I realize that it's just the way they say things. The "ching chongs" that we foreigners hear are ABSOLUTELY normal to those people, and I've grown to respect Vietnam even more.
Even today as I played, someone was like: "Lang Chien sounds like some kind of Asian noodle soup."
I face palmed. The Vietnamese are a proud people with a long and distinct culture and history. They've fought foreigners for centuries, fighting to protect their sovereignty, especially China. Yes I personally would prefer a Vietnam that is democratic and free, yet I can't label the North Vietnamese communists led by Ho Chi Mihn as COMPLETE monsters.
Ho Chi Mihn had good intentions, and yes the NVA were our enemy, and yes, communism is pure EVIL (I 100% believe that), and yes the Vietcong committed numerous atrocities. Even some of the South Korean elderly that I know were veterans of the Vietnam War, fighting the communists.
However, in hindsight, South Vietnam was corrupt and futile. Ho Chi Mihn reunited Vietnam, and later, capitalist reforms helped turn the country from a third-world hellhole to a rapidly developing economy.
I respect the Vietnamese people, and I like how many of the Vietnamese have an affinity for Koreans. I hope that one day, the Communist party of Vietnam allows free and democratic elections, and that Vietnam will one day become a Republic.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
Yes, and in the 60's everyone said "n****r." Ubiquity does not equate to acceptability.Quikli wrote:I do agree that "gook" and "charlie" are not particularly offensive. Almost EVERY serviceman in Vietnam used these terms, and even the author of a Vietnam War diary that I emailed who respects Asian people even used those terms during the war.
"Charlie" is just phonetic shorthand for the "C" in "VC", so it is certainly the least offensive slang term we're dealing with in PR:V. "G**k", on the other hand, has always been used in a derogatory manner, and is to be considered offensive at the very least, despite its benign etymology.
And he apologized for doing so.Even JOHN MCCAIN used those terms.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
There's almost a squad EVERYTIME on CIA server called Gook or GookHunter. I even saw a CIA member being the leader of the squad once.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
Just find a server that doesn't allow this kind of behaviour, and report it. I know thats a simple answer, but its the server admin's job to make the rules and enforce them. If they don't have a rule against this behaviour, or don't enforce it, then find a new home.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
TG is okay if you want a clean game, however the admins can't moderate mumble.. somebody said the N word on mumble yesterday and nothing happened to them.chrisweb89 wrote:Just find a server that doesn't allow this kind of behaviour, and report it. I know thats a simple answer, but its the server admin's job to make the rules and enforce them. If they don't have a rule against this behaviour, or don't enforce it, then find a new home.
Moreover its used as a loopwhole to bypass the chatfilters on the server to insult other players, I was playing on TG yesterday and a arab squad leader was talking on side mumble to the team informing them of a APC then someone called him a terrorist.. he left after that.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
Only once during Vietnam release did I made a racial joke to a black player that I know. We then made a couple regarding asian physiology. I should also underline that we were the only two ones in the squad. I knew he wouldn't get offended, so reading the situation properly is definitely important. And some good taste while we're at it.
Racism deeply affects me. I'm an International Relations student and I'm always fascinated with different cultures, especially non-european ones. Unfortunately, you'd expect that being in this course would get you in touch with open-minded people. A classmate who I'm friends with spat shamelessly a few days ago that she finds all asians alike - ofc that in her ignorant mind, asians = chinese and japanese only (although even between them there are distinct differences). Another one that I know told me that if all things failed, that he could always work in India (in a derogatory manner). More people ask me why I want to work for a few years in Asia like I'm senile rather than the few ones that do it out of curiosity.
It needs to be said, even in our social life racial stereotypes are everyday present. If it's not a joke within the right context or even a joke at all, I refute them anytime I can because it's a sensible thing to do as a world citizen. As a basic human right. Calling an arab player "terrorist" like mentioned above is highly offensive and intolerable. There is also a recent gameplay Nam video out there where you hear the N word several times like it's a common word. I can't talk for this black player that I know of, but I'm pretty sure that he would feel offended.
The point I'm trying to make is that the debate pertaining what is acceptable in the Internet or Real Life is pathetic. The context is the only thing that matters in a given situation and no moral boundaries should be drawn to indicate you how a stupid fuck you're being. If a person lacks the sensibility to read a situation properly, then chances are that he's equally ignorant in real life.
Racism deeply affects me. I'm an International Relations student and I'm always fascinated with different cultures, especially non-european ones. Unfortunately, you'd expect that being in this course would get you in touch with open-minded people. A classmate who I'm friends with spat shamelessly a few days ago that she finds all asians alike - ofc that in her ignorant mind, asians = chinese and japanese only (although even between them there are distinct differences). Another one that I know told me that if all things failed, that he could always work in India (in a derogatory manner). More people ask me why I want to work for a few years in Asia like I'm senile rather than the few ones that do it out of curiosity.
It needs to be said, even in our social life racial stereotypes are everyday present. If it's not a joke within the right context or even a joke at all, I refute them anytime I can because it's a sensible thing to do as a world citizen. As a basic human right. Calling an arab player "terrorist" like mentioned above is highly offensive and intolerable. There is also a recent gameplay Nam video out there where you hear the N word several times like it's a common word. I can't talk for this black player that I know of, but I'm pretty sure that he would feel offended.
The point I'm trying to make is that the debate pertaining what is acceptable in the Internet or Real Life is pathetic. The context is the only thing that matters in a given situation and no moral boundaries should be drawn to indicate you how a stupid fuck you're being. If a person lacks the sensibility to read a situation properly, then chances are that he's equally ignorant in real life.
Last edited by Arc_Shielder on 2012-04-16 01:44, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
What, not letting words upset you is a childish attitude? Dying in PR frustrates me far more than a guy running around screaming nigger ever could. Even so, I don't write long posts about how squad leaders have a duty to shield me and better protect my gaming experience. I envy you if your life is so friction free that your biggest complaint is the idiot who keeps reenacting scenes from Full Metal Jacket in the video game you play. I've nothing against people screaming "gook rats" as they charge through bushes spraying wildly, it's funny, gives the game character.'[R-CON wrote:Tim270;1759007']
people who cry about racism are just being niggardly for attention.
What a simply absurd thing to say. A childish attitude to the topic at best.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
Pure brilliance. Possibly the best post I've seen written on this forum.Lordbaldur wrote:What, not letting words upset you is a childish attitude? Dying in PR frustrates me far more than a guy running around screaming nigger ever could. Even so, I don't write long posts about how squad leaders have a duty to shield me and better protect my gaming experience. I envy you if your life is so friction free that your biggest complaint is the idiot who keeps reenacting scenes from Full Metal Jacket in the video game you play. I've nothing against people screaming "gook rats" as they charge through bushes spraying wildly, it's funny, gives the game character.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
You've obviously never been the victim of racism in your entire life. You have no idea how it feels to be discriminated against because of your skin colour or some other factor which you can not help.Lordbaldur wrote:What, not letting words upset you is a childish attitude? Dying in PR frustrates me far more than a guy running around screaming nigger ever could. Even so, I don't write long posts about how squad leaders have a duty to shield me and better protect my gaming experience. I envy you if your life is so friction free that your biggest complaint is the idiot who keeps reenacting scenes from Full Metal Jacket in the video game you play. I've nothing against people screaming "gook rats" as they charge through bushes spraying wildly, it's funny, gives the game character.
The reason I say this is because what you say comes from your ignorance more than anything. Don't take the word "ignorance" as an insult; you're just like a great deal of other North Americans who have also never experienced it, the difference is that you're being vocal and expressing an opinion that makes your ignorance visible.
My point: a person who has genuinely experienced these sorts of things would not be saying what you're saying. The reason I'm sensitive about this is because I've experienced it a bit (I'm a 0.01% minority where I live) and seen others experience it a great, great deal worse.
Last edited by Incognito84 on 2012-04-16 03:59, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
Not just for TG, but on any server. If this is against the server rules, the only way the admins, can and will do anything about it is if they persoanlly witness it, or get a proper report saying what happened. I'm sure the large majourity of server admins won't stand for racism. They just need to know, who did what.zamani532 wrote:TG is okay if you want a clean game, however the admins can't moderate mumble.. somebody said the N word on mumble yesterday and nothing happened to them.
Moreover its used as a loopwhole to bypass the chatfilters on the server to insult other players, I was playing on TG yesterday and a arab squad leader was talking on side mumble to the team informing them of a APC then someone called him a terrorist.. he left after that.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
+1 I totally agree with you. People are stupid and inconsiderate and should STFU and behave themselves in a civilized way.Incognito84 wrote:Firstly, everyone and their dog has seen Full Metal Jacket. There is nothing clever about parroting bigoted lines from what was actually one of the most anti-war films of all time. It is really old.
Secondly, Every second squad is named "ting tong" or "ching chong" and you can't go five minutes without hearing someone say "sucky sucky" or some other epithet (such as "chink" or "slanty eyes").
It isn't that bad and I'm not horribly offended but I'm a bit embarrassed on behalf of everyone partaking in it. For starters, I thought this community was much better than that and all you're doing is showing off your own ignorance.
When you make fun of the games spoken language be aware that it is Chinese, not Vietnamese and it is possible that you might have someone of Chinese background either in your squad or within Mumble radius that doesn't want to be hearing you go on about how stupid the language sounds or doing your little impressions. The fact hat you could hear Thai, Vietnamese, Mandarin or Cantonese and not be able to distinguish them (they are surprisingly easier to distinguish than European languages) means you shouldn't be doing impressions of them.
Vietnam is a country that has been around in the form of a large grouping of tribes (influenced by China) since forever and is now emerging as a major economic power in South East Asia. I spent a few weeks there in the beginning of this year and had a great time learning about the language, the food, the culture and riding a scooter/local bus in Ho Chi Minh and all over Southern Vietnam. I don't recall being reminded or actively thinking of the war at all in my entire time there. It wouldn't hurt to learn something about the country or the region aside from what happened there in the 60s/70s.
Anyway, I'm just asking people to think before they speak and maybe even learn a thing or two about the things that have become so stereotyped in their minds. As a Westerner who has been living in East Asia for five years, listening to some of you guys talk like this is putting more stock in that nasty "loud, fat and ignorant American" stereotype that goes around this part of the world.
PS. Great mod by the way. Having an absolute blast. I just wanted to try and put the brakes on something before it got worse.
But more importantly.............
Can you do the voice overs for the Vietnamese?
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
Personally the idea of shooting and blowing up other people really offends me, as does players shouting things such as "knifed him!" "nail em with your LAT!" It's clear that none of you have ever been to war or experienced extreme violence.
I demand that PR is disbanded and this website taken offline.
Seriously though, there's no excuse for targeted insults. Players that are unprovoked and directly insulting whether racist or otherwise towards another player should be banned from the server. Any and all non targeted expletives, slurs, rude or crude jokes however are perfectly acceptable to any mature adult in this context and should be allowed to proceed unchecked for all of the reasons already described throughout the thread.
I demand that PR is disbanded and this website taken offline.
Seriously though, there's no excuse for targeted insults. Players that are unprovoked and directly insulting whether racist or otherwise towards another player should be banned from the server. Any and all non targeted expletives, slurs, rude or crude jokes however are perfectly acceptable to any mature adult in this context and should be allowed to proceed unchecked for all of the reasons already described throughout the thread.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
I remember one time a South Vietnamese guy joined me squad and later complained saying "You know guys, I'm not liking the racism. Could you do something else (ex shoot the enemy)?"
Its fine and dandy to crack a few jokes and relax, but if it insults anyone you're just making a nuisance of your self.
Its just as bad when you call someone an insult by some race, like "jew" or "hadji" or "that n-word", by the way. Also, responding to a racist slur with another doesn't make you any better. I.e, being a NVA guy, hear someone say "slanty eyes", and respond with "mmm, delicious dogs" isn't right.
Its fine and dandy to crack a few jokes and relax, but if it insults anyone you're just making a nuisance of your self.
Its just as bad when you call someone an insult by some race, like "jew" or "hadji" or "that n-word", by the way. Also, responding to a racist slur with another doesn't make you any better. I.e, being a NVA guy, hear someone say "slanty eyes", and respond with "mmm, delicious dogs" isn't right.
A pilot, a parachutist, and a tanker. And maybe a bit of a human shield.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
Thank you. I agree completely.A. Reaper wrote: Its just as bad when you call someone an insult by some race, like "jew" or "hadji" or "that n-word", by the way. Also, responding to a racist slur with another doesn't make you any better. I.e, being a NVA guy, hear someone say "slanty eyes", and respond with "mmm, delicious dogs" isn't right.
It goes for anything, really. There is a such thing as racism that is in good taste that could be laughed at by all. Unfortunately, this type of "racism" requires a bit of intellect, wit and a sense of timing that is usually reserved for comedians or just people that are able to say something racist in such a way that would come off as actually being anti-racist. Like Louis CK or Chris Rock.
99.5% of this community (or most others) could not pull this kind of humour off in a public environment. It usually just ends up sounding racist and the kind of racist that is backed by bigoted ignorance. Just yesterday on Mumble I heard people carrying on about "ching ching chong ching ching", "slanty eyes" and so on, and referring to Koreans, Chinese, Japanese and every Asian country in the course of doing so. I knew there were Korean and Japanese players on the server who were also in Mumble ([KOR] and [JP] tags) and I can imagine some could understand English, hence them being on Mumble. How do you think they felt?
This is NEVER okay! Can you imagine what happened if someone did this in the real world? They'd get the **** beat out of them.
All the racism sounds like this dumb bimbo to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNuyDZevKrU
I think people just need to remember that even though you're in a virtual world, you are in public and should behave accordingly.
Just to clarify, sometimes people make politically incorrect jokes in the game that I don't find that bad (I hate PC thought too). For example: "you die GI!" or "come get some fried rice!" The difference is that this kind of humour is based on cultural stereotypes that exist for every culture the world over. Not a whole lot of people can deny that South East Asians tend to (not always) use broken English and have an affinity for fried rice.
In the same vein, I can say "come get some hamburgers you capitalist American pig dog!" or something. Nobody would have a problem with this kind of humour.
The problem is that it seems to cross into unacceptable humour (making fun of a particular race's physical appearance) so quickly. I guess servers just need to have a zero tolerance policy or something.
Last edited by Incognito84 on 2012-04-17 04:09, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
The other day we ran into a squad doing the whole "ching chang chong" bit, you probably don't realize just how retarded you make yourselves look until you see it from the outside. Did it garner laughs? None. Was it tasteful? No. Did they all get sniped while we sat safe and sound in our BTR? Yes, and justice was served oddly enough.
Before you try to be witty, and retro stop to think about how it looks to the people on the other side of the screen.
Before you try to be witty, and retro stop to think about how it looks to the people on the other side of the screen.
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Re: A bit too much racism on the servers
What if I have a problem with this? 'Why? you're not even American' you ask. It's the same as all the non-East Asian people taking offence to 'gook', 'slope', and 'ching chong' (most pitiful slur I've ever heard). It's the same as white folk getting up tight about the word 'nigger'. Or any other phrase, sentence, or slur that people don't take kindly to. Some people have think skin, some people don't. I don't 'get thrills' or enjoy from directly insulting people or making other people feel bad, my conscience will bug me about it if I do, but sometimes I have the opinion that if someone takes offence to something (which more often than not is not directed at them), that's their problem.Incognito84 wrote:In the same vein, I can say "come get some hamburgers you capitalist American pig dog!" or something. Nobody would have a problem with this kind of humour.
Last edited by TheOldBreed on 2012-04-17 23:04, edited 1 time in total.