Vietnam - Post 1.0 thoughts

[dysin]

charlies point is still a killhouse. challenging games, and the american's need mortars to stand a chance. doesn't get voted for too often.

ia drang- surprisingly well balanced, given the disparity between american mobility and cas support. this map goes either way, maybe 50/50 in my experience. it comes down to which team manages to mount the effective counter-offensives. with 3 flags in play, the trades for tickets losses tend to decide it. personally haven't seen the alternate layout in play with the cas heli in place of the skyraider since vietnam was introduced.

op barracuda- little to say, always a great ground map.

hill-488 is unique in pr. the foliage cover can have you 1m from 30 prone enemy. the skirmish setup is one of my favorites in the game. jungle warfare, squad v squad. the zippo and patrol boats are fun toys, but not overly effective in any special way. easy to bypass, easier to avoid.

tad-sae just works. the fights are always good.

what i have to say about vietnam is that it needs larger maps in the style of ia drang. i understand the close quarter vibe, but the 2km maps are mostly cutout from play by water features. something more like hill-488 in a 2km setting. large (wide) rivers for the patrol boats, footpaths and some tunnel features. a map with no armor and limited helicopter transport for the americans. a ground game with river combat.

another suggestion would be something based on the battle of hue, where the citadel would obviously stand as the final nv flag. khe sanh is another, in the style of ia drang. a central airfield feature with 4-5 control points surrounded by jungle.

i think that an amazing vietnam map has the chance to stand out in pr, and become as overplayed as kashan and muttrah, which would be a good thing. the mod plays well and deserves more playtime in the future.

[dtacs]

Really good points dude, especially the largest maps issue. Hill 488 (Bi Ming) is just too small and feels very gamey, hunting for people amongst the trees makes it very cat and mouse with little room for squad tactics. A larger map city map in the same sense of Sunset City would go down a treat

PRV just doesn't have the 'Vietnam' feel to it and plays very much like a regular game of PR, there really isn't anything unique to it that sets it apart.

Also the recoil on the M16A1 is a little bit too low in my opinion

[YAK-R]

Also the recoil on the M16A1 is a little bit too low in my opinion

I certainly agree, the M16, especially with the extended clip is too damn good.

[Cossack]

We need Hue map. That is it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hue

[AfterDune]

PRV just doesn't have the 'Vietnam' feel to it and plays very much like a regular game of PR, there really isn't anything unique to it that sets it apart.

It's PR gameplay in a Vietnam era .

I'm curious though, what do you think would bring the Vietnam feel that you're missing?

[dtacs]

Not quite sure, honestly a different game mode would be best.

But like people are mentioning a 4km map with jungle and city environments with tanks, choppers and planes would be awesome (Hue). All it essentially is at the moment is repeated jungle, nothing unique and no maps that can be relied on as staples like Kashan and Muttrah.

Bi Ming, for example, could do with some more harsh terrain, tunnel/cave systems, trails, bridges, different trees (the underbrush is great but the trees are all the same) and some more authenticity.

Its just my opinion but if I'd rather play any regular PR map over Vietnam, regardless of what the map is.

PRV just feels...gimmicky ??:

[AfterDune]

If we could have 4km jungle maps, we would. But unfortunately, that lags too much. We have tried, but using the jungle overgrowth doesn't work out well. I think a mixture of over/undergrowth as seen on Charlie's Point would work best, performance wise.

We really want to have larger maps for Vietnam, so we can feature heavy assets layers and everything. We still have a whole bunch of assets for this era that haven't been used anywhere yet.

"All it takes" is a mapper to take on that task.

[SnakeTheFox]

Before anything else let me tell you what my favorite moment in a PR:V match was: I had just joined the game, got put on NVA, and no organized squads were open. I joined some disorganized squad just to avoid being kicked, and upon hearing that the map was bugged because the US couldn't cap an objective with "tunnels" in its name (I believe it was Ia Drang), I decided to muck about and have some fun. So I grabbed a pilots kit, switched to the "hands up" emote, and ran behind the US lines and found myself a patrolling squad. I proceeded to make myself known, put my hands in the air, and slowly approached them. They raised their rifles at me and did the same. As I got closer, they let their guard down and stopped aiming at me (though they still maintained eye contact). At this point I whipped out the TT-33 and *BLAT BLAT BLAT*. Killed 2 of them before they got me.

This was, in my opinion, an influential Vietnam moment. More so than any experience I've had playing "normally" (in a squad, staying on some cap, playing normally as one would play AAS). The confusion, fear, the unknown. Are those Vietnamese collaborators? Are they hiding firearms?

It's this reasoning that forces me to conclude that Vietnam needs to be an Ins variation, not an AAS variation. The US should need to hunt around and take out VC weapons caches. A collaborator role is needed as well, to force the US troops into the realistic position of whether to call in a strafing run on that village or not, or whether to shoot that guy in the bushes a few hundred meters out.

Combine this with certain features usually only found in an AAS faction, such as FOB building and larger assets, and it would definitely feel more "Vietnamy".

[matty1053]

I don't mind Vietnam in PR.

Charlies Point: It's horrible if you have dumb squad leaders, as well as bad heli pilots. It's fun if you have a decent squad that is doing some Recon on the NVA. You can win a round if you are US, if you have a decent Heli pilot squad, Recon squad, and 2 infantry squads. The NVA have decent spots to camp for the choppers especially with the BTR.

Hill 488: I almost died playing the map, I just was like Sw33t. It has that real Nam' experience. Even thought the NVA when saying "gogogo" sounds like they are saying: "hitler!" It's a fun map. who ever decided to finish it up did a darn good job.

La Drang: Most overplayed map. I don't like it cause it's just overplayed. It's boring after you play it like 3 times a day. I love playing as the US if I do... you just hide in a bush and you win

Tad Sae: Fun map, it is defeniently balanced. I enjoy Nam Version better then the China vs. US one.

Op. Barracuda: I love this map. Clearly a great map. Not really a vietnam type setting, but it fits!

[Cavazos]

I think Charlie's Point needs two first cap flags. You can only win U.S. if you get lucky with skilled players and squad leaders. I think Ia Drang would be more fun if it had foliage like Hill 488.

[Darman1138]

Charlie's Point is amazing if you're in a mortar squad. So much to do!

[nardz123]

I would agree with the above posters on the need for a city map. Hue would be a perfect fit for this.

Some additional Tet offensive battles that would be a good fit:

1) Khe San - Fantastic idea whoever posted that. Could give the US air assets/airbase posted well outside the immediate combat zone and force supplies, reinforcements etc. to be flown in over NVA lines. Fun siege style map.


2) Hue - Great idea. BFV had a good Hue City map, could use that for insporation.


3) Saigon - I think I recall this for BFV as well, and it was a good mix of light jungle/tunnels and then mostly city fighting. I think you could have an early war/late war version of the map. For a Saigon 1968 Tet version, could be standard NVC infantry attacking, versus some light APCs and helis for the US. Alternatively you could do a late war "fall of saigon" version of the same map, give the Vietnamese a number of APCs and heavy assets vs US light infantry and transport helos.


4) Quang Tri - The 1968 Tet offensive battle here was huge. Additionally, you could feature ARVN rather than US forces if you're looking for a little extra flavor/difference. Again, this would be mixed urban warfare but allows for heavier air or ground assets on both sides, and wouldn't require dense foliage everywhere. Could be a larger map with room for maneuvering. Additionally the region features rivers, etc. for bridge chokepoints or for putting boats into play as fire support and transport vehicles.


5) Hamburger Hill - Put the NVA in the defending siege position. Dense foliage around the hill, but most of the hill and surrounding areas could be deforested from bombardments, etc. to save on frame rates. Could make some nice tunnel and breastworks within the hill for the NVA to use.



Feedback for existing maps:
Generally speaking the NVA BTR-60s are pretty damn OP. If you have a halfway competent crew running one, they'll terrorize the US side and can shift the battle all by themselves. To me that seems unbalanced. At least make the armor lighter on it so it's easier to take down. I believe the majority of variants that the NVA fielded were the BTR-60P which were open-topped, anyway.

Alternatively, it'd require a new model, but an old school BTR-50 or BTR-40 would be much more accurate for the time period and actually reflect majority of Soviet equipment that was gifted to the NVA and realistically what was used in the field against US/ARVN.

[tankninja1]

The btr-60 is also somewhat misplaced. Most of the time the NVA only had infantry and light artillery. It was only on rare occasions that the NVA could count on armor support like during Tet even then US air assets killed most armor before it could be used.

[camo]

I had an idea for a map in PR Vietnam recently that involved a mostly flat area with just lots of rice paddies, with dense tree's and foliage between every couple so the view distance limit isn't as noticeable. Also this dense foliage could provide cover for nva/vietcong troops staging an ambush on American troops crossing these paddies. Something like this.


I was also thinking of slotting in a few villages in some of these denser area's of the treeline which could work quite well for an insurgency layout. Have plenty of cover up close like the kokan compounds with open spaces in between villages. Something like this


I was thinking of it being maybe a 4km map just so the jets could get properly used and also put a bigger emphasis on helicopter warfare. With squads using the huey as much as possible to move around. The rice paddies could also mean tanks and APC's from both sides could be used which would be new for PR:V. If the helicopters were unavailable i was thinking of having a few rivers going up the map to allow the use of boats.
Here are a few pictures i found which convey the sort of style i was thinking of if you haven't got the gist already.




Little disclaimer, I'm not asking anyone to make it it was just an idea. I finish my schooling in November so i'll be free so i might try learn how to map and give this a try.

[Alpharecon05]

I've been thinking while reading the past few comments, Battle of Coral?Balmoral - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , minus the artillery and Canberra bombers, I think it would be a reasonable map.

[tankninja1]

I think all the new deviation makes all the CQB style combat on Vietnam maps suck. People seem to just run around hip firing all over the place.

[Careless]

I think it's an unpolished game.

The fact that the "Vietnam" doesn't add any value, at all. I just experience it as if it's INS/Militia vs USA

But that's my opinion though

[AfterDune]

Could you make your post a little more constructive? That way we might be able to actually do something with your feedback .

[Vicious302]

1. Needs more armor and assets in my opinion most PR maps do, I don't see conventional armor forces going with 1 flame tank or a couple wimpy APCs. BF2: Vietnam and EOD had many more assets and I think that's what most people think of when they think of Vietnam.

2. Static maps with that aren't huge games of hide and go seek with guns. This could be changed by adding more players, giving certain sides starting defensive positions, or simply removing a flag here or there and making cap zones larger.

[IWI-GALIL.556FA]

I think it's an unpolished game.

The fact that the "Vietnam" doesn't add any value, at all. I just experience it as if it's INS/Militia vs USA

But that's my opinion though

Doesn't add any value? The weapon's, asset's, and faction's are time and period correct. Some of the most fun I've had in PR has been playing Vietnam. I don't understand what your gripe is