[Vehicle] Leopard 2A4 [WIP](FDF)

[splatters]

I'm sorry splatters, I didn't realize you had years of experience in this field like some of us do to make this kind of judgement....

I'm not going to bother to go into details on why that statement is so wrong but if we took your approach then PR would be unplayable and hardly any more detail now just due to wasted polys...

Please go into detail, because I'm not quite following you! (also, I don't have near the same level of experience in modding PR of course as you, but I'm not a complete noob nor idiot either)

My approach on this matter btw is as follows: Optimization is of course absolutely crucial, I used to have to run PR with <20 FPS constantly and it was torture. But the last thing that needs to be optimized are the LOD0s of vehicles and weapons (which will not even render on lower graphics settings, right?) - there are far bigger issues to be addressed than arbitrary polygon count limits on vehicle models. You could have a ridiculous amount of vehicles on test_airfield and it'd still run fine, but Fallujah -even though one of the best maps in PR- runs like **** with no vehicles at all.

Tbh, I don't think the model will be altered much or at all at this state, though can't speak for Ukkis. The LODs of course are a different thing, they don't even exist yet. Out of curiosity, what areas would you have optimized better or baked to normal maps other than the wheels?

[Rhino]

Like I said before, it dosen't "look like 11k tris", ie, from my perspective just looking at the images I can't see where the tris are going until I see the edged frame and you can see them being used up where much fewer tris could be doing the same job, like in the inside of the wheels.

I wouldn't turn them into a normal map, just cut down the tris and you most likley wont even have to edit the normal maps and if you do, only to fix them up slightly if they get distorted in the optimizing process (much like doing LODs).

Also like I said, one area I would ADD tris would be to the outside of the wheels as right now, they are really boxy and you should take some of the tris that are not being used well and put them there to make the wheels look a lot rounder and will improve the look of the tank overall and you will be able to see more where the tris are being used.

One area I would be tempted to totally change would be the back grill, at the moment taking up loads of tris, where it could be done via a normal map: http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/797/sieppaa4.png

Or at the very least, it could be optimized by turning the slats into flat planes/triangles, hard to tell from the image but they look like boxes currently.

[Wicca]

One does not simply walk into modeling.



Keep up the good work!

I love tanks!

[H.Maverick]

One does not simply walk into modeling. !

I lol'd AWESOME model btw

[splatters]

Well if it doesn't look like 11k tris, imagine how it would look with 7k tris? The detail is there, believe me.
We talked about Ukkis doing the grills with normals, he decided to go 3d because they're such a prominant feature of the tank and doesn't cost that much triangles the way they're done now. There is not much to remove and even if you did the optimization on the wheels and other round objects (concave and convex) as shown above and flattened the back grill completely to a plane with baked normal map, the tri count would still be closer to 10,5k than 10k triangles. Do the math:
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/5826/gentsi.jpg
http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/1289/lads.jpg

Overall, while there could be room for some optimization it's no way worth the trouble at this point

[AquaticPenguin]

I had a look, below are the changes that I think would have minimal effect on the detail. Personally I think the small details add a lot to the overall look, but since the opportunity is there I would've thought it would be best to optimise as much as possible. Destroying loops shouldn't affect the UV mapping or texturing drastically, and there wouldn't be much tweaking to add them to the texture map.



Sorry if I'm coming across as a bit critical. It really is a fantastic model and it's absolutely brilliant work. It will be a pleasure watching this roll around the fields of battle.

EDIT: small additional point, the holes in the side skirts, though they're modeled in, you can't actually tell they are modeled because all the geometry behind is dark, may as well remove them since they're taking up polys on both sides. The same applies to the cover round the back of the turret.

[ukkis]

Looks good but tbh, it dosen't look like 11k tris tbh. I think your wasting loads of tris on the wheels and some others areas but I think you can really optimize the wheels up quite a bit without anyone being able to notice the difference, although there are also a few other areas you could optimize too.


I may also be tempted at smoothing the outside of your wheels too as right now they are pretty boxy

The trick is using the polys where they are going to make the most visual difference

Thanks again for feedback. : -)

I believe you are right about the wheels looking a bit boxy and maybe they could use some optimization as well but don't the wheels still need to have centre vertices in order to have correctly rotating uv animations? (<-- not really sure how this stuff is done with pr but this what I understood from the feedback the Patria AMV got ages ago.)


To be honest I don't really see it necessary to optimize anything else much further. We need to keep in mind that you can actually walk right next to it and jump on it in game.

[Rhino]

Some good feedback there AquaticPenguin

but don't the wheels still need to have centre vertices in order to have correctly rotating uv animations? (<-- not really sure how this stuff is done with pr but this what I understood from the feedback the Patria AMV got ages ago.)

For tanks and other tracked vehicles, Yes they do need a central vertex for the UV to be animated around it. I wasn't saying to remove that

To be honest I don't really see it necessary to optimize anything else much further. We need to keep in mind that you can actually walk right next to it and jump on it in game.

The point is that even when you optimize these areas, its going to look just the same as it dose now as players wont be able to tell the difference between loads of tris making up an object or only a few in a lot of cases, like the centre of the wheels and as the player "can walk right up to them" is even more reason to optimize...

[ukkis]

For tanks and other tracked vehicles, Yes they do need a central vertex for the UV to be animated around it. I wasn't saying to remove that

Just making sure so I won't accidentally remove them

The point is that even when you optimize these areas, its going to look just the same as it dose now as players wont be able to tell the difference between loads of tris making up an object or only a few in a lot of cases, like the centre of the wheels and as the player "can walk right up to them" is even more reason to optimize...

I am sorry but I really don't see much areas that could lose so many tris without affecting the ingame look of the model. I might do some fixes to the wheels though.

[Rhino]

AquaticPenguin has already pointed out many areas in which you can optimize.....

[Kovanaama]

Whats the situation with this one? Awesome. Can you make a little demonstration video about this one? Keep up the good work!

[Hulabi]

(Moved to Modelling & Animations) Model still needs LODs/COLs and possible Leopard A6 turret for the German/Canadian forces, if anyone's interested, contact me

[H.sta]

Anyone interested in doing this? it would benefit several factions

[Saarna]

Add FDF to the list of beneficiaries for the A6 turret (articles in Finnish):
Armeija hankkii sata k?ytetty? panssarivaunua | Kotimaan uutiset | Iltalehti.fi
Puolustusvoimat hankkii sata panssarivaunua Hollannista | H?meen Sanomat

EDIT: Articles in English:
http://www.army-technology.com/news/new ... ds-4161095
http://www.janes.com/article/31818/finl ... d-2a6-mbts

Basically Finland is acquiring Netherlands' inventory of 100 Leopard 2A6's between 2015 and 2019, with the older 2A4's continuing to serve alongside them till 2025.

Let the good times roll.