Insurgents: Bolt action kit vs SKS/Shotgun kit. Am I missing something?

[viirusiiseli]

I don't understand this thread. Bolt actions are honestly the best weapon on the spawnmenu on Iraqi insurgent team. Same for NVA. Only kit on insurgents in the spawnmenu that competes with the Mosin is officer with AKS-74U. For NVA it's the AR kit.

Nearly always 1 shot kill, aim for the head, legs, hands. Anything that doesn't have body armor. If you adjust your playing style to a more passive type and use cover, you're gonna do a lot better with the BAs. Grenades, ammo, binoculars and a rifle that kills enemies nearly always with 1 shot and settles down fast deviation wise. What more do you need?

mosin>ins spawn menu weapons just have to adjust your playing style to be able to play with it.

[Portable.Cougar]

Bolts are fun in a change of pace kind of way.

Patience is the key, though there is still a place to run around like a crazy person.

[Mongolian_dude]

Since I got a bit bored of my trusty AK47. So I decided to give the insurgent's ammo kits a spin.

After playing both the Bolt-action kit and SKS/Shotgun kit I can't seem to see the point in using the bolt-action rifles except to give yourself a challenge. The BA rifles might be super accurate but they are not one hit kill weapons (unless head shot), not even at pointblank range. So couple that with an atrocious ROF and you have yourself a weapon that is mainly good for wounding.

The SKS is also decently accurate, but at least you can double tap a target so you can actually kill people with it. Don't get me wrong. I've gotten plenty of kills with the BA's, but they were all vs targets that didn't see me. In a firefight I would lose nine times out of ten.

The shotgun is just good for opening doors in my opinion.

So why would one use the BA's over the SKS for the ammo kit?

Firstly, many or all of PR's bolt action rifles are one-hit-kill if you target the unarmoured parts of a conventional soldier. So shooting a soldier in the torso will heavily wound him, but going for the legs and arms will likely down him in one, or give him seconds to apply a field dressing.

Secondly, insurgency for the irregular/defending factions is as much about subverting general counter-insurgency operations as much as it is about killing dudes. In many cases, the former is used to achieve the latter and heavier calibers excel at this in project reality.
The success of PR's counter-insurgents relies on their ability to exercise dominating firepower and high mobility to achieve their objectives (destroy caches), while sustaining as few casualties (tickets lost) as possible. That means coordinating assets and covering ground quickly and consistently. If counter-insurgents lose enough momentum or stop altogether, the generally-speaking slower insurgents will overrun them and weigh them down with sheer numbers and selfless attacks in restrictive terrain (urban, mountainous, woodland etc environments).

The extreme accuracy and heavier calibers of bolt action rifles are great tools for slowing down counter-insurgents, because they compete with the counter-insurgent's accurate weaponry at mid-long ranges and hit hard against these heavier armoured opponents. If you down a counter-insurgent, his squad (providing they are objective-minded) will be more inclined to leave him behind and press on towards their objective, providing he isn't essential to their operations (engineer, breacher). He will say "I'm down.." and the game goes on. Equally, a moderately wounded soldier will either be able to return fire or apply a dressing and run on, either returning to the protection of his squad or leading you on a wild goose chase for this one man.

Now, a heavily wounded soldier is much more inclined to beg and moan to his squad that he needs back-up and needs a medic immediately. Equally, the squad would be more inclined to tend to their man who is not 'lost' to enemy fire. By forcing a squad to halt their advance and making them regress to save a soldier, you embroil them in a fight they have no interest in fighting (INS are a ticketless faction) and one they are much less likely to win. With that said, it would be near impossible to follow up this delaying action as INS if you don't have automatic, short-range weapons and grenades to engage the COINs at close range.

Having a smart diversity of weapons is important in an INS cell, and bolt action rifles have their place in this scheme!

[ComradeHX]

Firstly, many or all of PR's bolt action rifles are one-hit-kill if you target the unarmoured parts of a conventional soldier. So shooting a soldier in the torso will heavily wound him, but going for the legs and arms will likely down him in one, or give him seconds to apply a field dressing.

Secondly, insurgency for the irregular/defending factions is as much about subverting general counter-insurgency operations as much as it is about killing dudes. In many cases, the former is used to achieve the latter and heavier calibers excel at this in project reality.
The success of PR's counter-insurgents relies on their ability to exercise dominating firepower and high mobility to achieve their objectives (destroy caches), while sustaining as few casualties (tickets lost) as possible. That means coordinating assets and covering ground quickly and consistently. If counter-insurgents lose enough momentum or stop altogether, the generally-speaking slower insurgents will overrun them and weigh them down with sheer numbers and selfless attacks in restrictive terrain (urban, mountainous, woodland etc environments).

The extreme accuracy and heavier calibers of bolt action rifles are great tools for slowing down counter-insurgents, because they compete with the counter-insurgent's accurate weaponry at mid-long ranges and hit hard against these heavier armoured opponents. If you down a counter-insurgent, his squad (providing they are objective-minded) will be more inclined to leave him behind and press on towards their objective, providing he isn't essential to their operations (engineer, breacher). He will say "I'm down.." and the game goes on. Equally, a moderately wounded soldier will either be able to return fire or apply a dressing and run on, either returning to the protection of his squad or leading you on a wild goose chase for this one man.

Now, a heavily wounded soldier is much more inclined to beg and moan to his squad that he needs back-up and needs a medic immediately. Equally, the squad would be more inclined to tend to their man who is not 'lost' to enemy fire. By forcing a squad to halt their advance and making them regress to save a soldier, you embroil them in a fight they have no interest in fighting (INS are a ticketless faction) and one they are much less likely to win. With that said, it would be near impossible to follow up this delaying action as INS if you don't have automatic, short-range weapons and grenades to engage the COINs at close range.

Having a smart diversity of weapons is important in an INS cell, and bolt action rifles have their place in this scheme!

That all sound nice and all; but the way distance and aiming works in PR makes even seeing the enemy more difficult than it should be, let alone lining up the shot to hit people(basically playing with 2-3 pixels at ranges where you should be).

Feels more difficult shooting with Mosin in PR than IRL.

What bolt action rifles(and every rifle with non-magnifying optic) in PR needs is a "scope" that is artificial x2 zoom and perhaps a "buis" being current no-zoom ironsight; that would make them a lot more effective at engaging in longer distances.

Also, I don't recall bolt action rifles having "extreme" accuracy; I thought it had same deviation as conventional assault rifles?

[Mongolian_dude]

That all sound nice and all; but the way distance and aiming works in PR makes even seeing the enemy more difficult than it should be, let alone lining up the shot to hit people(basically playing with 2-3 pixels at ranges where you should be).

Feels more difficult shooting with Mosin in PR than IRL.

What bolt action rifles(and every rifle with non-magnifying optic) in PR needs is a "scope" that is artificial x2 zoom and perhaps a "buis" being current no-zoom ironsight; that would make them a lot more effective at engaging in longer distances.

I completely agree with you.

[Yrkidding]

Yea a low-power scope on bolt-actions would do wonders for the Insurgents. Having said that I like using bolt-actions, it takes time to get good with them and aim well with them and I appreciate that challenge, it's a nice change to use bolt-actions. Also whoever said that shotguns are only good for breaching is clearly not very good with shotguns, those things are freaking awesome in PR.

[ComradeHX]

Yea a low-power scope on bolt-actions would do wonders for the Insurgents. Having said that I like using bolt-actions, it takes time to get good with them and aim well with them and I appreciate that challenge, it's a nice change to use bolt-actions. Also whoever said that shotguns are only good for breaching is clearly not very good with shotguns, those things are freaking awesome in PR.

Shotguns are problematic because of Bf2's "netcode" or "hit registration."
Why should you(other than needing the breacher kit) take a pump action shotgun if a rifle kills almost as fast in CQB, works at longer ranges, and is more forgiving to misses caused by netcode issues?

Bolt action rifles also have such problem but Bolt action rifles does not need you to get close to kill.
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I found Insurgency(the game in which you can kill almost instantly by shooting the legs) to really help improve my game with Bolt action in CQB.
I killed 5 people from 75-100m away within 5 minute in Fallujah.

[viirusiiseli]

Shotguns are problematic because of Bf2's "netcode" or "hit registration."
Why should you(other than needing the breacher kit) take a pump action shotgun if a rifle kills almost as fast in CQB, works at longer ranges, and is more forgiving to misses caused by netcode issues?

Bolt action rifles also have such problem but Bolt action rifles does not need you to get close to kill.
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I found Insurgency(the game in which you can kill almost instantly by shooting the legs) to really help improve my game with Bolt action in CQB.
I killed 5 people from 75-100m away within 5 minute in Fallujah.

Shotguns are problematic only with high ping.

[ComradeHX]

Shotguns are problematic only with high ping.

My ping is generally ~60 on U.S. servers but I still often get lots of bloodsplatters but no kill.

Not to mention that it's high risk even without hit-reg problem.