Excessive amount of LATs

[Acecombatzer0]

I'm sure you know that 2x LAT kits are quite misunderstood sometimes,

Sure they are weaker in damage, but most APCs I hit with LAT kits RTB anyways, and with a 2x kit I can make 2 APCs RTB, which effectively helps the team more (especially on a 4km map)

Also a good shot can kill 2x helis and jeeps with such a LAT kit

Could just increase armour of BTR-60 a little on the front.

Agree, keep the AT4 as a one hit kill on older APCs on the back/top, (especially on the BMP-2 there are fuel tanks on the doors!) as you only have one shot, it should do a little more than a RPG-26/RPG-7

But a shooter should think again before hitting it on the front.

[Chuva_RD]

The LAT system ATM works really badly for APC vs inf warfare. Somehow people are able to spawn with a new LAT every life and it wrecks gameplay for APCs.

LAT's fine, but number of MANPADs are too few for amount of air threats now. Better suggest to allow 3rd AA kit.

[Acecombatzer0]

LAT's fine, but number of MANPADs are too few for amount of air threats now. Better suggest to allow 3rd AA kit.

With the amount they buffed MANPADs in the last patch and getting air support is a lot harder now than 1.2, I don't think that is reasonable IMO.

[viirusiiseli]

Okay okay comrade, you're right lets add unlimited LATs. Should probably remove APCs actually too so infantry doesn't have to fear them. Thats not too far from reality atm.

[Mats391]

Could just increase armour of BTR-60 a little on the front.

Since you are all about facts, what is your source that it should be increased? From what i read about the BTR-60 it has very bad armor all around and is penetrable by a lot of things. Any AT weapon should do quick work of it.

Regarding the numbers of light AT on the field, we are checking it. It was intended that you can respawn with the kit if you died with it, but having unlimited wasnt.

[ComradeHX]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Mats391;2081026']Since you are all about facts, what is your source that it should be increased? From what i read about the BTR-60 it has very bad armor all around and is penetrable by a lot of things. Any AT weapon should do quick work of it.

Regarding the numbers of light AT on the field, we are checking it. It was intended that you can respawn with the kit if you died with it, but having unlimited wasnt.[/quote]

Last time I checked, all APC/IFV(aside from Namer) in-game are protected against at most up to 30mm autocannons(far below what RPG can penetrate).

LAV-25, for example; was only protected against 7.62; the one that is supposed to resist 14.5mm(based on how difficult it is to kill in-game, being resistant to more than 1 magazine of 14.5mm AP) isn't amphibious(yet it is, in game).

These in-game material's resistance to damage is purely artificial. If APC resistance to LAT can be increased at v1.0; some can be tweaked a bit further.

I don't think LAT was ever unlimited.

[quote="Acecombatzer0""]I'm sure you know that 2x LAT kits are quite misunderstood sometimes,

Sure they are weaker in damage, but most APCs I hit with LAT kits RTB anyways, and with a 2x kit I can make 2 APCs RTB, which effectively helps the team more (especially on a 4km map)

Also a good shot can kill 2x helis and jeeps with such a LAT kit



Agree, keep the AT4 as a one hit kill on older APCs on the back/top, (especially on the BMP-2 there are fuel tanks on the doors!) as you only have one shot, it should do a little more than a RPG-26/RPG-7

But a shooter should think again before hitting it on the front.[/quote]
They can down two light/medium choppers while heavy choppers(such as Chinook) generally fly away.

2x LAT kit usually means 1 miss 1 hit.
Not everyone can shoot down choppers; especially with the terrible sights of RPG-26.

BMP-2 doors are either empty or filled with sand/vodka in combat

[Mats391]

Last time I checked, all the APC/IFV(aside from Namer) in-game are protected against at most up to 30mm autocannons(far below what RPG can penetrate).

LAV-25, for example; was only protected against 7.62; the one that is supposed to resist 14.5mm(based on how difficult it is to kill in-game) isn't amphibious(yet it is, in game).

These in-game material's resistance to damage is purely artificial. If APC resistance to LAT can be increased at v1.0; some can be tweaked a bit further.

I don't think LAT was ever unlimited.


They can down two light/medium choppers while heavy choppers(such as Chinook) generally fly away.

2x LAT kit usually means 1 miss 1 hit.
Not everyone can shoot down choppers; especially with the terrible sights of RPG-26.

No reason to increase BTR60 armor, but to decrease that of other APCs. We will redo a lot of armor values in future patches, but need to get as much information as possible before. If you have sources, feel free to compile a list of armor quality of tanks/apcs/ifvs. Just make a thread about it in community modding then.

[ComradeHX]

No reason to increase BTR60 armor, but to decrease that of other APCs. We will redo a lot of armor values in future patches, but need to get as much information as possible before. If you have sources, feel free to compile a list of armor quality of tanks/apcs/ifvs. Just make a thread about it in community modding then.

Isn't there Military Advisers for that kind of thing?

[Mats391]

Isn't there Military Advisers for that kind of thing?

We only have two active MAs left and they cant know everything about every vehicle. Any help is appreciated, just needs to be sourced.

[Acecombatzer0]

I can try to be of help on that sort of thing (especially USMC weapons, the AAVP7, and communication equipment, the latter being insignificant to PR)

However it is getting increasingly difficult to source a lot of military facts when media articles and other websites get a lot of misleading facts that are not considered reliable sources IMO. There is a difference between being there and just citing a source.

However I want PR to stop upgrading equipment so there really isn't much I can do.

[viirusiiseli]

No reason to increase BTR60 armor, but to decrease that of other APCs. We will redo a lot of armor values in future patches, but need to get as much information as possible before. If you have sources, feel free to compile a list of armor quality of tanks/apcs/ifvs. Just make a thread about it in community modding then.

The moment you make APC armor vs LATs realistic will be the moment APCs will be useless.

Even T-62 front armor IRL can be penetrated by AT-4. This would mean AT-4 oneshots T-62.

It will wreck any balance that has been worked toward in PR for the last years.

Penetration: 400 mm (15.7 inches) of rolled homogeneous armour (RHA; also see below)

Armor Cast turret
214(242 after 1972) mm turret front
153 mm turret sides
97 mm turret rear
40 mm turret roof
102 mm at 60? hull front
79 mm hull upper sides
15 mm hull lower sides
46 mm at 0? hull rear
20 mm hull bottom
31 mm hull roof

And yeah, LAT kit is practically unlimited atm. It resembles call of duty actually. Take a LAT kit, preferably with 2 shots, kill 2 guys with it. Die. Respawn with a new one. Repeat. Occasionally kill an APC. It's ridiculous. I'm seeing so many LATs firing them off at infantry even though they have no ammo supply close. Just because they can and they'll get it again after spawning.

Yeah they're used IRL against infantry but this is way too many for PR.

[Nate.]

It resembles call of duty actually. Take a LAT kit, preferably with 2 shots, kill 2 guys with it. Die. Respawn with a new one. Repeat. Occasionally kill an APC. It's ridiculous.

"It resembles call of duty actually. Take a Medic kit, preferably with 9 epipens, kill 2 guys with it. Die. Respawn with a new one. Repeat. Occasionally revive a friendly. It's ridiculous."

To be honest I don't see the big problem here. Maybe the number of LATs in pool should be reduced a bit again, but generally I don't have a problem with LAT being available on respawn. I mean, nobody cares that you can get "op AR", Hook, C4, 2x Medic, .. with every respawn.

I played a good amount of APC in 1.3 and didn't even notice that there are significantly more Light AT's.

[ComradeHX]

And yeah, LAT kit is practically unlimited atm. It resembles call of duty actually. Take a LAT kit, preferably with 2 shots, kill 2 guys with it. Die. Respawn with a new one. Repeat. Occasionally kill an APC. It's ridiculous. I'm seeing so many LATs firing them off at infantry even though they have no ammo supply close. Just because they can and they'll get it again after spawning.

Yeah they're used IRL against infantry but this is way too many for PR.

If it's anti-infantry effectiveness of LAT kit you are complaining about.

Remove frag grenades from all faction's LAT.

Then they can either shoot infantry with LAT and get shit pushed in by APC, or shoot APC and not having any for infantry(you remember that they typically have rifles that kills in 2-3 shots, right?).

[TristanYockell]

The amount of RPG's is fine, they are popular for a reason and they are heavily used throughout the world today for both anti vehicle and anti personnel.

Your mad that you got hit with a rocket on foot? well I guess that's what happens when you show yourself in an enclosed area when the guy on the other end has a rocket launcher.

It's just another aspect of warfare, learn to deal with it. Other weapon systems are devastating as well and lets be honest, you don't get killed with 1 hit in apc's and the like so it's not OP.

I hit vehicles and they get away to survive another day all the time. I also get killed carrying the LAT all the time, it's not the be all, end all of kits.

[GOATier]

How are weapons that require two shots to destroy a vehicle and 7-8 seconds to deploy OP. Also, the number of players that can effectively hit a moving target at more than 100m away are in my opinion greatly exaggerated. You should be able to tell what areas provide cover to infantry and maneuver your vehicle accordingly.

[ComradeHX]

How are weapons that require two shots to destroy a vehicle and 7-8 seconds to deploy OP. Also, the number of players that can effectively hit a moving target at more than 100m away are in my opinion greatly exaggerated. You should be able to tell what areas provide cover to infantry and maneuver your vehicle accordingly.

Because it only takes one for AT-4 on Muttrah.

[Psyrus]

Here are the numbers (you can look it up in your realityconfig_private.py)

Code: Select all

C['KIT_LIMIT_44'] = { 'sniper': 2, 'aa': 2, 'at': 1, 'engineer': 2, 'marksman': 4, 'assault': 4, 'riflemanat': 8, 'riflemanap': 4, 'mg': 4, 'spotter': 2, 'civilian': 16 }

8 LAT kits per team.

Code: Select all

# The amount of seconds a kit is available again for pickup
# Default is 300 seconds for special kits, 30 seconds for infantry kits
C['KIT_PICKUP_DELAY'] = { 
	'sniper': 300, 'aa': 300, 'at': 300, 'engineer': 300, 'mg': 300, 'spotter': 300, 
	'officer': 30, 'marksman': 30, 'riflemanat': 30, 'riflemanap': 30, 'assault': 30, 'medic': 30, 'support': 30, 'specialist': 30, 
	'tanker': 30, 'pilot': 30, 'unarmed': 30

So the riflemanAT (among others) gets put back in the kit pool after 30 seconds when it dies. So in essence, virus isn't far off the mark, 8 of 9 squads can have light AT kits 30 seconds after they die

I didn't make the change, merely injecting some facts into the discussion. Please continue.

[X-Alt]

LAT's are one of the most spammable kits, I've seen rows of LATs hiding in the same T on Muttrah because they just pick them off their suicide bodies and have more and more in the pool. The old system was better, as LATs are incredibly dangerous to many types of APCs at ranges of <150m, a skilled LAW has a decent chance of getting a BMP-3, so does an AT4 that knows where to hit, why make it so you can grab LAT kits over and over again until one time you succeed, it should require skill, not persistence.

[viirusiiseli]

LAT's are one of the most spammable kits, I've seen rows of LATs hiding in the same T on Muttrah because they just pick them off their suicide bodies and have more and more in the pool. The old system was better, as LATs are incredibly dangerous to many types of APCs at ranges of <150m, a skilled LAW has a decent chance of getting a BMP-3, so does an AT4 that knows where to hit, why make it so you can grab LAT kits over and over again until one time you succeed, it should require skill, not persistence.

[Psyrus]

As a player I think there should be 8/9 LAT kits, so that each squad may defend themselves, but I believe the 30 second respawn time on the LAT is too forgiving. 300 seconds is not that long a wait for an item that yes, is crippling to the majority of APCs, or at least will cause an RTB. Like most changes in PR, I am sure it was an idea that will be fine tuned as the releases progress