Amount of commander players in the Project Reality Tournament

[Web_cole]

Orthas was probably SCO for C9, maybe CO too. Bonsai was a CO in some respect for C9 too. Someone else will have to confirm the exact details of that arrangement.

We also have PDI, Commanding Officer (CO): Fnixer, he is posted from the SCO/CO announcement of the campaign, so I assume he partly completed the campaign, or did he leave before the campaign started

I think Fnixer essentially resigned before the tournament had properly gotten under way, as in before a battle had taken place thus elevating Hotfranc to the position of CO from XO. Again I'm not clear on that, he could have played one battle but I doubt it was more than that.

In C9 AgentMongoose should have played as CO on the NATO side, did he complete the full campaign? Nothing on his tournament profile suggest he did play as CO or NATO or C9? His profile list CATA in C7 and C8? ...information needed please.

I know you're looking for corroboration on this one but I promise you he was the CO of NATO Alpha (which had a German Bundeswehr theme; my squad was called the 23rd Gebirgsjager Brigade ) in C9 after switching from playing in CATA for C8. He brought with him Sekh as an XO, and at least two more Officers in SweetLain and Alfa.

I made this at the time:

[Sekh765]

I know you're looking for corroboration on this one but I promise you he was the CO of NATO Alpha (which had a German Bundeswehr theme; my squad was called the 23rd Gebirgsjager Brigade ) in C9 after switching from playing in CATA for C8. He brought with him Sekh as an XO, and at least two more Officers in SweetLain and Alfa.

I made this at the time:

Can confirm as well, Mongoose was NATO Alpha CO for C9, I was his XO. Good times!

[AgentMongoose]

... Web has awoken me from my slumber after around 2062 days of inactivity. The *******.
I was an SL in C7 2ic in C8, both on CATA. In C8.5 I was persuaded to switch to NATO to help remedy some 'skill' imbalances (I think NATO won a single match in C8, but I could be mistaken.) I don't even recall my rank from C8.5 but it was canned early by admins due to many issues, which never really got addressed before C9. I decided in to stick around in NATO for C9 in a leadership position for much the same reasons I was willing to hop sides in C8.5 (along with most of my command staff).
Anyway enough of that here is the original command structure for NATO ALPHA. Though I don't know how long this held before I (and Sekh for that matter) had to start shuffling squad leaders around. Though Would contend that Sekh ended up as Co-Commander rather than my 2ic by the end of the campaign.

[sweedensniiperr]

So you are saying that CO Cruzmissile did not complete C10 as appointed CO? Or are you referring to an internal agreement between these two individuals?

I'm not saying anything because I do not know/remember.

Here's a thought for you though: If a CO is LOA for the last 2-3 battles (1.5 month) does that count as he completed it?

[Cossack]

I remember C9 as it was yesterday. Pfunk was SCO of whole NATO and CO of the Charly. I joined C9 after winter brake. Bravo was disbanded, because loads of people left. Charly was made from those who stayed from Bravo and loads of the new guys like me.

From there I got into OD-S because RedWater. The opposition we faced was CATA united single team. SCO was Orthas, and CO Bonsai. Basically Charly was bunch of new guys with few months at best vs battle hardened veterans of CATA. I remember Red saying, ae won't even hit the ground before we will get killed during Muttrah battle. My first battle and the only win of Charly...

[Web_cole]

... Web has awoken me from my slumber after around 2062 days of inactivity. The *******.

Mwahaha

Oh snap dude that's awesome. Yoink.

[Michael_Denmark]

... Web has awoken me from my slumber after around 2062 days of inactivity. The *******.

I was an SL in C7 2ic in C8, both on CATA.

In C8.5 I was persuaded to switch to NATO to help remedy some 'skill' imbalances (I think NATO won a single match in C8, but I could be mistaken.)

I don't even recall my rank from C8.5 but it was canned early by admins due to many issues, which never really got addressed before C9.

I decided in to stick around in NATO for C9 in a leadership position for much the same reasons I was willing to hop sides in C8.5 (along with most of my command staff).

Anyway enough of that here is the original command structure for NATO ALPHA. Though I don't know how long this held before I (and Sekh for that matter) had to start shuffling squad leaders around. Though Would contend that Sekh ended up as Co-Commander rather than my 2ic by the end of the campaign.

Thank You Web for bringing him back and thank you, AgentMongoose, for helping out to clear this fog of confusion.

Okay, okay, let me see if I understand it correctly:

You first become CO from C9, thus not in 8.5, 8 or 7?

Sekh ends up as the CO-Commander, -like the two of you shared the responsibilities of the CO position, that you formally was appointed to, from start to end of C9?
In that regard, would you like me to post both your names as partly completed commanders in campaign 9, for NATO Alpha?

Thanks again AgentMongoose, it maybe be important we get all this stuff right, so we might figure out - as a community - whether we are in need of another model for tournament commanders?

I'm not saying anything because I do not know/remember.

Here's a thought for you though: If a CO is LOA for the last 2-3 battles (1.5 month) does that count as he completed it?

Well, if that CO is still the official appointed CO, by the administration, then yes, it will count as he completed it.

It is a really good question, because the model we use, for completion or not, is rather inflexible. Already now, in this small attempt getting the numbers down, we see this continous pattern of people, constantly stepping up, taking over from others, like was it a real war, loaded with replacements taking over from each other.

Perhaps the tournament need a new official term; replacement CO / SCO / GSO / XO and so on...

I remember C9 as it was yesterday. Pfunk was SCO of whole NATO and CO of the Charly. I joined C9 after winter brake. Bravo was disbanded, because loads of people left. Charly was made from those who stayed from Bravo and loads of the new guys like me.

From there I got into OD-S because RedWater. The opposition we faced was CATA united single team. SCO was Orthas, and CO Bonsai. Basically Charly was bunch of new guys with few months at best vs battle hardened veterans of CATA. I remember Red saying, ae won't even hit the ground before we will get killed during Muttrah battle. My first battle and the only win of Charly...

We will post Pfunk as SCO for the whole of NATO in C9 then. Thanks for the other information too!

[Alex L.]

Hello everyone,

UK_Force was the first commander in C1, to my knowledge. During that time, Gaz was squad leader for Delta squad (the special forces). During C1, UK_force moved to the admin team. Then Gaz became commander during C1.

I myself was a dedicated pilot in C1 and later "HCO" ("high command officer") responsable for team strategy and later 2iC under Gaz. When Gaz moved to the admin team I became commander for C2 and C3. In C2 Deg.0 was my 2iC. After C3 I moved to the tournament admin team (T-ADMIN) and ultimately became the tournament lead (TL) and tournament management (R-DEV). Deg.0 became commander in C4. I retired all my remaining duties in 2010 (already stepped down from TL in 2008 - which was after C7 I believe.) I can recall C8 and C9, but I think most executive duties were already being handled by someone else at the time.

Since subsequent tournament leads have all re-written all official posts in the tournament instructional sections you can not find any real data from that time anymore. Most images were hotlinked in the passed and have now gone defunct as players have moved on and online storage has evolved. During my time, there were several dumps of important topics into archives, but I can't check anymore since I neither have high clearance on this board or the tournament board anymore.

The split between "Supreme Commander" and just "Commander" came from the fact that during my time as tournament lead, the tournament became so popular we decided to have four teams instead of two. That created the need for an extra layer of command to ensure smooth operating with the admin staff. I designed the rank images for the teams at that time. The allied "commander" had a blue colonel eagle, the "supreme commander" a brigadier general star. For the chinese oriented team there was a similar structure based on chinese military ranks. I still have those rank avatars on file.

Hope it helps.

Kind regards,
Alex L.
(former commander, admin, management lead - 2006-2010)

[AgentMongoose]

Sekh ends up as the CO-Commander, -like the two of you shared the responsibilities of the CO position, that you formally was appointed to, from start to end of C9?
In that regard, would you like me to post both your names as partly completed commanders in campaign 9, for NATO Alpha?

Technically according to the rank structure Pfunk used Sekh Was my 2ic, but in reality he and I split most of the commanding duties. He and I planned everything together. In battles he and I would alter roles on the fly, If I was engaged he would take over as Actual, or vice versa. Only with dealing with the admin staff did my rank really make a difference.

[MaSSive]

Orthas and bonsai C9 and maybe 8.5 CATA. Completed C9, I dont remember anyone dropping off then.

Now armies and all that.. hmm I dont recal that detail. Plus I got mixed up memory in my head with the PRTA tourney, cant help much more...was a while back. I do remember I got golden mortar badge.

Went trough bootcamp with Onil, such a badass that dude. Plus Rex, man that guy spared no one, kickass player.

Fucks flyout to all and especially my ExYU Jackals, you know who you are.

L4gi was a CO? Pfft haha. (I kid)

[Michael_Denmark]

Orthas and bonsai C9 and maybe 8.5 CATA. Completed C9, I dont remember anyone dropping off then.)

Thanks for the info Massive,

So in C9 on the unified CATA team;

Bonsai was SCO and completed it too?
Orthas was the CO and also completed it?

Technically according to the rank structure Pfunk used Sekh Was my 2ic, but in reality he and I split most of the commanding duties. He and I planned everything together. In battles he and I would alter roles on the fly, If I was engaged he would take over as Actual, or vice versa. Only with dealing with the admin staff did my rank really make a difference.

I am afraid your appointed rank also makes a difference in this matter. You were the appointed Commander.
However, when that is said, it is clear that the model used by the tournament, to define a CO or SCO, is at least, a bit inflexible.

Perhaps we need a description attached to the commander names, in cases as yours and Sekh?
As I see it, for now at least, there are two reasons for that;

1) If your style as Commander was to run the show as you did with Sekh, then it should be mentioned. Not doing it would be disrespectful to both the work Sekh provided and your style of commanding.

2) Project Reality and its tournament always need CO and SCO players, so clearly it will only benefit the game, to highlight those who can and will play the function.

For now, however, I will only post your name in the list of appointed Commanders, deployed in post 1. I have already posted Sekh as a CO-Commander on your team, in Post 8, the Draft Post.

Later on, depending on what people think, we will make a final list where descriptions can be made, as to the CO-Commander style you made us of on your team.

Does this sound fair to you, or the opposite?

On top of that, in the future, we should maybe make a list of HCOs, 2iCs, XOs, PLs, SLs and NCOs too, completed and partly completed. Perhaps even a list for everyone in the tournament, from admins to privates?

[Cossack]

Orthas was SCO, and Bonsai CO for C9 in CATA. At least this is from January 2010 to end of campaign.

[L4gi]

L4gi was a CO? Pfft haha. (I kid)

Never lost a battle as a commander in the PRT.

[DonDOOM]

-snip-

Long time no see Alex!

Have a listen to this glorious old recording, your opening speech for C6. Over 200 people in one TS2 channel... I remember the server lagging like crazy when everyone was talking at the same time.

The actual speech starts at around 4:14.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t0mczurubqtks ... 6.m4a?dl=0

[MaSSive]

Yeah what Cossack said. Sadly I kept all the screenshots and data on my Xfire account as we all kept there those and Xfire was used duirng C9 and was a must. I think it was a backup in case Mumble gets down, so another layer of comms plus material gathering. And a you know Xfire is out of bussiness so all that is lost.

I migght have some leftovers on my PC but thats is insignificant and no data about the team structures.

Some might find mortar tables useful.

I had all the CATA badges somewhere too but I cant find them now. If anyone has those send it my way pls. I want my golden mortar badge

[Michael_Denmark]

Hello everyone,

UK_Force was the first commander in C1, to my knowledge. During that time, Gaz was squad leader for Delta squad (the special forces). During C1, UK_force moved to the admin team. Then Gaz became commander during C1.

I myself was a dedicated pilot in C1 and later "HCO" ("high command officer") responsable for team strategy and later 2iC under Gaz. When Gaz moved to the admin team I became commander for C2 and C3. In C2 Deg.0 was my 2iC. After C3 I moved to the tournament admin team (T-ADMIN) and ultimately became the tournament lead (TL) and tournament management (R-DEV). Deg.0 became commander in C4. I retired all my remaining duties in 2010 (already stepped down from TL in 2008 - which was after C7 I believe.) I can recall C8 and C9, but I think most executive duties were already being handled by someone else at the time.

Since subsequent tournament leads have all re-written all official posts in the tournament instructional sections you can not find any real data from that time anymore. Most images were hotlinked in the passed and have now gone defunct as players have moved on and online storage has evolved. During my time, there were several dumps of important topics into archives, but I can't check anymore since I neither have high clearance on this board or the tournament board anymore.

The split between "Supreme Commander" and just "Commander" came from the fact that during my time as tournament lead, the tournament became so popular we decided to have four teams instead of two. That created the need for an extra layer of command to ensure smooth operating with the admin staff. I designed the rank images for the teams at that time. The allied "commander" had a blue colonel eagle, the "supreme commander" a brigadier general star. For the chinese oriented team there was a similar structure based on chinese military ranks. I still have those rank avatars on file.

Hope it helps.

Kind regards,
Alex L.
(former commander, admin, management lead - 2006-2010)

Hi Alex,

Thanks again for your answer, it really does help. So far, it seems that you are the only tactical CO, having completed 2 full campaigns. On top of that fact, a question; Has every campaign before C5, included 10 battles?

I presume Deg.0 completed his C4 campaign, since I recall him as a serious minded player, from my experience on the C5 PELA team.

In regard to the allied teams providing the administration with admins, I feel a respectful need, to add that we from the Opfor teams, also provided our share of admins.

From my two Opfor teams alone, (PELA 5 and CATA 2) I am fairly sure, the following players, became active in the administration:

• Raic
• alroar
• Aquiller
• Onil (former Tournament Lead)
• GrayeKnight (former Tournament Lead)

Some, like Onil and GrayeKnight, are, if I recall correctly, still active.

In case you don't have them,

C10 PAC Team:
SCO: Spook
CO: Cruzmissile
C10 EMF Team:
SCO: Norby
CO: Snipd, briefly ElMariachi, then Agemman and CasualtyUR , Danger_6,
What occurred here was a dispute with Snipd where he elected to leave the team, ElMariachi was recruited to replace him but felt the PRT wasn't for him after roughly a week or two (including 1 battle), Casualty And Age stepped up soon after one another (can't remember which was first) but both were busy in real life and didnt truly have the time to fufuill the position despite their best efforts. These two would stick around and contribute the rest of the campaign but Danger was recruited as someone who did have the time to actually CO and did a wonderful job at it for the entire 2nd half, rallying EMF and giving them the win in the campaign through some really close great battles. Ask anyone from these teams about the last battle of C10 and you'll get a good story. Both of these teams likely had an XO but I can't remember who they were right now.

C11 MRF Team:
SCO: Cossack
CO: Aleon
XO: WebCole
C11: PDI Team:
SCO: Danger
CO: Fnixer (who would resign early into the campaign as a result of real life issues I believe), then hotfranc who served for the of the campaign, stepping up from the XO role.
XO:hotfranc, not sure if they felt the need to give this position to anyone else after franc's promotion.

The factions for C12 haven't been assigned yet, (that will be taken care of after grunt sign-ups) but these are the two high commands:
C12 Team A:
SCO: Yrkidding
CO: ytman
XO: Murkey
C12 Team B:
SCO: Philrow
CO: Senshi
XO: To be determined.

Okay,

C10 EMF Team:
SCO: Norby
CO: Snipd, briefly ElMariachi, then Agemman and CasualtyUR , Danger_6

Okay, Snipd resign, then ElMariachi was recruited and appointed by the administration? as CO for 1 battle, or was he already a player on the C10 PAC team, being recruited intenally, without the administration interfering in the change?

Agemman and good old CasualtyUR, who I fought my self as CO back in 2006, or so?, they step up and are also appointed by the administration, or is this maybe also done internally on the team?

Then at last Danger, and he pull it off for the rest of the campaign. Same question goes for him as with the rest; did the administration appoint him or was it done internally?

I am asking in order to understand the evolvement of the tournament, I mean with an SCO it should - in theory at least - be possible for the teams to adapt them selfs in the case wher new COs are needed?

***

When that is said, this pattern of continously change in commandership, is excatly what we saw back in both C5 and C6, when i played in the tourney.


C11: PDI Team
SCO: Danger
CO: Fnixer

Fnixer resign, then hotfranc step up and get appointed as CO, and he complete the rest of the campaign.

XO:hotfranc, not sure if they felt the need to give this position to anyone else after franc's promotion.

This sentence I do not understand...hotfranc and franc's? who is francs, another CO, or did you mean Fnixer?

Copy on C12 start data, lets wait it out and see what happens.

Franc is just a short-form for hotfranc.

I was only an NCO at the time so I don't know exactly what occurred but I *think* it was a joint effort to find a replacement CO, Norby searching probably with some help with management at the time. I dont think appointed is the right word I think Norby was involved the whole way through and certainly nothing was done without his consent or active involvement in regards to the team. Next time I see him on TS I'll ask a question or two and see what I can dig up.

ElMariachi was recruited from outside of the PRT, (he was a motable member of the NEW community.) I can't remember if casualty was already part of the team or not, and Age (short for Agemman) was actually serving as a member of the admin team at the time, he stepped down from that role to join EMF as oyr replacement CO but again I don't believe this was any management "appointment". Norby was at least very familiar with Age if not friends already and Age wouldve been totally fine at the position had real life been a little less demanding.

Danger was someone that a bunch of us had been trying to get involved with the PRT for the whole campaign before we finally convinced him and he stepped into the CO role where he rather prospered, vbeing a big reason EMF narrowly won the campaign and going on to be an SCO for C11. So he had been following the campaign fairly closely but not participating until then.



EDIT: Err Mongoose is right, this belongs in the thread he linked really, my apologies.

Thanks Yrkidding, and thank you too Mongoose, your right, hence, all content now redeployed to the correct thread.

[Philrow]

Fun fact I noticed earlier, all SCOs (and 2 COs) from C11 and 12 played in EMF during C10

[Yrkidding]

On top of that, in the future, we should maybe make a list of HCOs, 2iCs, XOs, PLs, SLs and NCOs too, completed and partly completed. Perhaps even a list for everyone in the tournament, from admins to privates?

I was Personnel HCO for C11 MRF and still have my roster doc that has all our SLs, NCOs, and HCOs listed. In addition, google docs saves every set of edits I made so you can look through and see who was in every squad and in what role at every step of the way if you'd like access to that. I'm using the same style doc for C12 and my former MRF assistant is going to be the other team's Personnel HCO and he's copied it for his team, so all that info will be available for both teams at the end of C12. I know Philrow was also C11 PDI's Personnel HCO for I believe most of the campaign so you might be able to hit him up for a doc of some sort there.


Also, that's totally true about the SCO's and COs there Phil, EMF ftw.

[camo]

Hail EMF.

[Michael_Denmark]

I was Personnel HCO for C11 MRF and still have my roster doc that has all our SLs, NCOs, and HCOs listed. In addition, google docs saves every set of edits I made so you can look through and see who was in every squad and in what role at every step of the way if you'd like access to that. I'm using the same style doc for C12 and my former MRF assistant is going to be the other team's Personnel HCO and he's copied it for his team, so all that info will be available for both teams at the end of C12. I know Philrow was also C11 PDI's Personnel HCO for I believe most of the campaign so you might be able to hit him up for a doc of some sort there.


Also, that's totally true about the SCO's and COs there Phil, EMF ftw.

That sounds very good indeed, those data might have some importance hidden?

But I respectfully think that it is we as a community, who should consider to do the big puzzle at some point, so I my self, will not - for now at least - take charge of it, because this small CO/SCO-puzzle alone, is difficult enough putting together.

The big puzzle, involves up to around 3000 tournament players, running over 10 years, so should probably be a dedicated group of players committing the time and energy needed? I am trying to puzzle together, not sure, between 50 and, hm? perhaps 70 players?

Also, on top of that, should we as a community, find the right people out there - being interested in the big puzzle data, well, those data might even be worth a bit of money too. Could perhaps bring in a useful donation to the Mod? The right people as in internet related researchers, specific journalists, authors or historians perhaps?

Tournament archives, has to have at least some of the data left. Videos on youtube, sometimes list all the players from a tournament team also...

But...it will take a lot of work no doubt, has to be a dedicated group of players from the community I think?

Thanks again!