Basict tutorial on the use of LAT / HAT
Hi to all guys, recently i've wrote a guide for using every LAT / HAT inside PR, where i just puring all knowledge, for my clan and the Italian community, that i just finished translating. Check it freely and tell me what you think and what's must be corrected / if needed additions etc. I just point out that my English is not perfect, so if the are some terrible errors tell my and i'll correct them and re-upload the guide.
I hope it can be help you in understanding these two important roles in the fields of PR.
Write on the topic or with PM on to these forum (PR.IT [EI] Forum).
In Italiano
Tutorial di base sull'uso dei LAT/HAT
Salve a tutti, posto anche qua questa guida a cui ho lavorato sull'uso di LAT/HAT, riversando tutte le mie conoscenze (spero) in essa. Consultatela liberamente e ditemi cosa ne pensate / se deve essere corretta / se serve qualche aggiunta etc.
Spero che vi possa essere d'aiuto nel capire questi due ruoli importanti sui campi di PR.
Scrivete pure qua sul topic, PM o sul nostro forum provvedero' poi io a correggerla ed a ri-upparla.
Last edited by Aragorn89 on 2016-08-29 09:46, edited 9 times in total.
Brilliant guide Aragorn! It's great to see all the info down in one place.
Do you know if there is a slight drop on the matador? I haven't used it enough myself.
I don't want to mention extra stuff now that the guide looks to be finished. But I didn't see anything about the max range for the wire guided HATs. I think it's 600m for the Eryx.
Lastly, no mention of the weaker armour on the top of vehicles. Either when shooting from above the target our using the wire guidance.
Murkey wrote:Brilliant guide Aragorn! It's great to see all the info down in one place.
Do you know if there is a slight drop on the matador? I haven't used it enough myself.
I don't want to mention extra stuff now that the guide looks to be finished. But I didn't see anything about the max range for the wire guided HATs. I think it's 600m for the Eryx.
Lastly, no mention of the weaker armour on the top of vehicles. Either when shooting from above the target our using the wire guidance.
Beside that great stuff
Cheers, Murkey.
Many thanks Murkey for your appreciations ! And now the answer times:
-For all my knowledge and tests the Matador has no drop of, so the rocker will run straight forward. On that ther's the characteristic that the IDF faction always play in small maps, so the maxium range vision is very low = less distance of the target, so i don't know if the rocket really drop off over an X distance
-For all the wire-guided HAT the max range is equivalent of the max FoW, so if your target is glimpsed at the edge of the Fog of War u can aim and kill it, no matters the real distance.
The rocket has no drop of. The hardest part is too keep the aim on a far target in huge map like Kashan, beacuse it looks like a small dot. Sometimes i need to stick my faces on the monitor to see it properly! This only with the wire-guided HAT
-Oh **** i forgot that tips for the top armor of tanks, i will corret the guide ASAP. And if you gave me your permission, i'll stick the link of that video in it, a video is always much clear that thousands words!
Last edited by Aragorn89 on 2015-09-03 13:06, edited 1 time in total.
great tutorial , i learned the russian hat optics by training alone in local server (far targets the missile will hit 1 meter left of where you aimed , right?) but this is great for newbies .
SyriousT wrote:great tutorial , i learned the russian hat optics by training alone in local server (far targets the missile will hit 1 meter left of where you aimed , right?) but this is great for newbies .
From my experience, and with empiric rules, the RPG's family tends to fail at longest ranges. The rocket will have a pseudo-random chanche to fail, since the cone of fire is a small circle, the more far away is the target, the less the rocket will hit him.
So yes sometimes he go to the left, sometimes to the right, other times in the middle, botton or top!
Tomce795 wrote:I love it. Great manual buddy!
Thank you sir! ^_^
Last edited by Aragorn89 on 2016-09-06 10:25, edited 1 time in total.
A really useful In-Depth guide on the LAT and HAT, supported with a list of just as useful tips and tricks; a must read.
In the hope that Aragorn89 will consider to extend this great guide, a single question:
What type of basic tactical teamwork, do you recommend, between the LAT and HAT? I am thinking about how they should position them self, to each other, the distances/timings and eventual angles involved, related to the following basic situations:
1. Contact with enemy armor (Armored Personal Carrier and Main Battle Tank)
2. Ad Hoc defense in depth against enemy armor having broken through
3. Teamwork with own armor (Armored Personal Carrier and Main Battle Tank)
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EDIT
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Related to Tip/Trick 2, there are a few in game videos on LATs taking out helicopters and slow jets, with I believe the newest video, where a LAT down a COW on the Jabal map:
Moving COW shot down
Slow jet shot down
Hovering? or slow moving attack helicopter shot down
Hovering CAS and ascending transport shot down
Fairly fast moving CAS shot down
Last edited by Michael_Denmark on 2016-10-14 06:39, edited 10 times in total.
Define irony. A bunch of guys playing PR year after year. A game teaching initiative as the prime mover. However, in regard to EA, these guys never took the initiative.
We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven,Tomorrow...http://gametactic.org/pr
In the future i will expand/rewrite the guide since 1.4 will change a lot in term of LAT/HAT and weaked spot's for AT, ex. you will be able to inflict a lot of damge to the rear of a Tank, now you can't. If some part need to be expand tell me, and i will think about it
Now deep in to the Question: (keep in mind that is not common to have the LAT and HAT in tosame squad and in the hands of a skilled players, because a SL often chose wich of those to kit have in the squad composition.)
1-
Position: LAT-mid to close range, HAT - on the long range to the target (possible to an higher position). They must take the target from both flanks, or if is not possible the HAT could ingange from the front and the LAT from one flank or rear.
Timing: The HAT will fire first since he have a better weapon and he can deal more damage, LAT after just to finish the target or if the HAT miss his rocket
Angle: HAT ideally from all side, the flank or top of the vehicle will be always better. LAT must go from the flank/rear always!
2- same thing as before, but this time will change the approach in relationship of the enviroment:
Urban Map: the will move in parallel street but close to each other, and always get the advantage and fire from inside a building, if possible work with another guy that can resupply/take the kit if one die.
Forest map: same as urban. Move in parallel from each other, fire from a top of an hill/deep of the forest
Open map: in this case they must act far away from each other. Stay close = both AT killed.
3- in this case force the SL to comunicate the position of the enemy vehicle, if is not possible the ATs can talk via chat directly to the Vehicles Squads, and (if possible) go close to them and comunicate on local. In this case the LAT can do it, since it is the more mobile between the two. If nothing of this solution is possible well...open the map and think as a Crewman . This is one of the greatest part of an AT guy, since sometimes play as a crewman can help to be a good AT and viceversa
I hope that i've answer at your question in a comprehensive way , if not i will try to be much clear
Copy on the feedback when you expand/rewrite the guide for 1.4. It really is a great guide and also nice, as Murkey said, to have all the AT stuff, in one place. Very useful.
Now deep in to the Question: (keep in mind that is not common to have the LAT and HAT in tosame squad and in the hands of a skilled players, because a SL often chose wich of those to kit have in the squad composition.
So for tournament play, or any other organised battle, the platoon leader or commander need to keep this fact in mind, so the squads equipped with the two different AT systems, are deployed in such a manner, so they can teamwork, in case the situation present it self. Important information, since far from everyone in command predict such a scenario, my self included. Also important in regard to vehicles hoLd back in reserve for such a situation, should two AT squads be deployed far from each other, with the exception ofcourse, of 2. the Ad Hoc defense in depth, against enemy armor having broken through. Then both system as you describe, will have to be positioned far from each other.
1. Contact with enemy armor
Position: LAT-mid to close range, HAT - on the long range to the target (possible to an higher position). They must take the target from both flanks, or if is not possible the HAT could ingange from the front and the LAT from one flank or rear.
Timing: The HAT will fire first since he have a better weapon and he can deal more damage, LAT after just to finish the target or if the HAT miss his rocket
Angle: HAT ideally from all side, the flank or top of the vehicle will be always better. LAT must go from the flank/rear always!
Aragon, this is great stuff. Basically describing the principles of a potential phase-one battle plan, on maps with enemy armor. All that is needed are a) the specific map, b) the specific timings and c) getting the AT unit/s, to that assumed area on the map, where the enemy amor is to be expected. With this description all you need to do is find the area suited best for it.
Call me ridiculous but I actually think Aragorn89s information, is very important indeed, after having watched the variety of tournament battles on you tube. What I have noticed is the usage of both the LAT and HAT, is mostly done in a reactive manner, to overcome an unexpected situation, instead of pre-planned usage, to win the contact battle.
In fact, in most battles, it is often a single squad and a single LAT/HAT guy, getting that enemy armor down, that otherwise blocked the rest of the team to do what it wanted to do.
Just take the last battle in the tournament campaign 11, where I noticed this pattern again, namely battle 2 on Xiangshan, between the teams MRF and PDI, where the centre of gravitation, became the fortress flag. Both teams deployed APCs in useful positions for quite some time, hindering each other, getting where they wanted to go, being the fortress flag. If I recall it correctly, MRF on the southern flank, could not get through the forrest and flank fortress that way, while PDI on the northern flank, could not get across the river and into the fortress that way. APCs from each team, (with infantry naturally) made sure of that.
But regardless of being correct on that interpretation or not, it became clear to me, that both teams had no successfully pre-planned usage of the LAT and HAT, to overcome that type of scenario, or at least watching the videos it does not appear as such. Please accept my apology both MRF and PDI should I be wrong here.
This pattern is not new, I remember it clearly from way back in campaign 5, making guides like these important, for future planning or tactical developments, for teams in the tournament.
2. Ad Hoc defense in depth against enemy armor having broken through
same thing as before, but this time will change the approach in relationship of the enviroment:
Urban Map: the will move in parallel street but close to each other, and always get the advantage and fire from inside a building, if possible work with another guy that can resupply/take the kit if one die.
Forest map: same as urban. Move in parallel from each other, fire from a top of an hill/deep of the forest
Open map: in this case they must act far away from each other. Stay close = both AT killed.
Again important information, for me at least. I have never used LAT and HAT in parralelles, in urban or forest fighting, never thought of it...well, because I have never really pre-planned a mobile usage of LAT and HAT, in these types of terrain.
Thank you again Aragorn.
3. Teamwork with own armor (Armored Personal Carrier and Main Battle Tank
in this case force the SL to comunicate the position of the enemy vehicle, if is not possible the ATs can talk via chat directly to the Vehicles Squads, and (if possible) go close to them and comunicate on local. In this case the LAT can do it, since it is the more mobile between the two. If nothing of this solution is possible well...open the map and think as a Crewman. This is one of the greatest part of an AT guy, since sometimes play as a crewman can help to be a good AT and viceversa
I hope that i've answer at your question in a comprehensive way, if not i will try to be much clear
I wonder if it would be most efficient, to force both the AT shooters and their SL and Amor crews, into the same squad, in order to a) make the communication as simple as possible and b) have the squad lead by either its AT or Armor crews, depending on who is positioned best for the tactical situational overview?
Think like a crewman, good and important information.
Last question related to this third scenario; do we need an in game command in the commander menu, for requesting specific squads to merge temporary?
Edited:
Nope, just found a thread from 2006, suggesting to merge squads and apparently it seems to be hard coded.
Great stuff!
Last edited by Michael_Denmark on 2016-11-04 14:31, edited 5 times in total.
Define irony. A bunch of guys playing PR year after year. A game teaching initiative as the prime mover. However, in regard to EA, these guys never took the initiative.
We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven,Tomorrow...http://gametactic.org/pr
Thank you for all your kind word Michael. It's a great pleasure for to be a source of help/knowledge!
Michael_Denmark wrote:I wonder if it would be most efficient, to force both the AT shooters and their SL and Amor crews, into the same squad, in order to a) make the communication as simple as possible and b) have the squad lead by either its AT or Armor crews, depending on who is positioned best for the tactical situational overview?
Welp as a SL/LAT/HAT/Crewman player this solution will be a total mess, for many reasons ex. If the HAT and LAT need to talk a lot in to the Squad channel (since they are too far away from each others) this will be a problem for the crewmans, since they don't need/like those kind of talking/information. The only solution to this, atleast form my POV, will be to have all those guys both in mumble and TS/Discord/Another 3th party VOiP with crewman in one channel and the HAT/LAT in another one. So they can talk as mouch they like in those channel and use the Squad Channel only for important informations/coordinations. It will be a very clunky solution but is better IMO.
Well i've talkend with a Pubblic match in mind (i refferd of my previous post), in to a Organized match ther will be a lot of other thinks to keep in mind:
-Transport for the HAT/LAT team: is better to go fast with a chopper? Or be more safe with a ground trans? Better to rush that position or slow down?
-Supplying: another core axpect since sometimes is better to have a Big Crate close to them, in a safe position, some other time a Small one
True words, although I am still unsure whether the 3-channel solution is best for tournament play? It is certainly useful, just not sure if a disciplined and trained tournament squad, would do better with a 1-channel solution? Has to be tested.
For public play I completely agree on your solution. Here the 1 channel solution risk becoming a total mess.
In regard to the transport of the LAT-HAT, those tips made me stop and think, for once.
Suppose we have the framework of a new type of PR ad-hoc squad here; a Tank/Anti Tank squad, using main battle tanks and the LAT HAT, plus their required transport, being any vehicle that can deliver the ammo and the anti tank crews?
On Xiangshan, within the first 60 seconds, we do in fact see both teams using their helicopter transports for delivering infantry to the assumed contact battle in the Forrest. But we also see both teams sending amour, either directly to the Forrest or nearby.
What if those helicopters had delivered that anti tank crew instead of Sls and other type of infantry? Both sides could have lost vital armor from the beginning of the battle?
Again, this is why I like these weapon specific guides; they not only provide important information on the weapon it self, they also tend to work as inspiration for new ideas. Or at least new for me.
I really think a lesson can be learned here. That is, on a map like Xiangshan, where the center of gravity (Fortress), is almost certain from before start, then the main objective of the contact-battle, should perhaps be to destroy the opposing armor, instead of focusing on a flanking position, as the Forrest became to the Fortress.
Well, thoughts...
But as useful I am talking too much, thank you once again Aragorn89, for your inspirational guide.
Define irony. A bunch of guys playing PR year after year. A game teaching initiative as the prime mover. However, in regard to EA, these guys never took the initiative.
We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven,Tomorrow...http://gametactic.org/pr
! And now the answer times:
ops:.
. This is one of the greatest part of an AT guy, since sometimes play as a crewman can help to be a good AT and viceversa