Infantry weapon damage changes

[Outlawz7]

Speaking of which you need to adjust the bot's aim or something because it feels like If they're facing my general direction I drop dead in an instant.

Nope, you decide AI difficulty by adjusting the slider when creating a co-op game.

[fecht_niko]

But you need to understand they need to fine tune the base stuff first, i.e. get the ballistics as close to RL as possible and only then start to take in barrel lenght and then flight characteristics and so on. Doing it behind closed dors is just impossible as you need fluid gameplay not just 10v10 testing sessions.

Are you serious with all the BS you have posted in this thread?
PR engine can't reflect RL. Simply not possible.
If you really want some RL milsim shit go and play ARMA.

As many experienced players have already posted: You cant fine tune a broken system!
Infantry gameplay was mostly balanced (apart from 900rpm, shotgun)
The last 2 patches destroyed all the work DEVs made during the last years, so just revert and fix the broken stuff if you care more about the game than some ego pride bullshit.

[X-Alt]

xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[Allahu Akbar]

You don't get it, right? Nerfing something is making it deliberately weaker in order to achieve "balance". The point of the weapons update is to make damage based on ballistics, to make everything relate in between in realistic proportions. Nerfing or buffing does absolutely the opposite.

No, YOU don't get it.

It is a nerf(for the previously "skill-damage" weapons) because that's what happened, it doesn't matter what the intent was.

It's like if I accidentally hit you with car, you dead; what happened was that I killed you, not "I was just trying to go forward."

Also, I am pretty sure removing the "skill-damage" was very much intentional as supposedly SVD was doing too much damage to light vehicles.

But you need to understand they need to fine tune the base stuff first, i.e. get the ballistics as close to RL as possible and only then start to take in barrel lenght and then flight characteristics and so on. Doing it behind closed dors is just impossible as you need fluid gameplay not just 10v10 testing sessions.

I've already proven that it's not the case...and it was admitted by dev that flesh damage wasn't quite right.

Only kinetic energy was taken into account(and only for short range) and even that's dubious at best.
Ballistic properties of each bullet is completely ignored to where flesh damage values didn't make sense.

Not to mention you don't need to be testing to be able to figure out that commonly-available 20-round full-auto one-shot rifle is not a good idea. (remember hk416)

The idea that bullets should behave closer to real life(especially against armour) is fine, but the new damage system is way too unpolished to be pushed onto live version.
It should have been a proposal with the numbers(like the charts we can see now) and gather feedback from playerbase before it was implemented...

These days I'm getting massively-inflated(even more than before) k :d ratio when playing as Blufor(especially with 900rpm 5.56 weapons, or G3) against unarmoured opfor. It can be considered "fun" for me but I bet it's not fun for the other side whose entire squad I one-shotted. Or killed near-instantly with a burst of 900rpm 5.56 weapon.

[X-Alt]

No, YOU don't get it.

Hey, how are you enjoying our fresh beef?

[Aimed]

I really didn't like these changes when they were first introduced, PR was one of my most played games but now I want to thank you for these updates as with out them I would never have realised how far Squad has come since it was first announced. These updates have been the best advertisement to move on that I have seen, we all appreciate the work you have all put in over the years and thank you for this final nail in the coffin. Thank you for helping people move on from some of the greatest gaming we have experienced, without these changes I don't think we would have noticed there are new things out there. So truely, thank you.

[Allahu Akbar]

Hey, how are you enjoying our fresh beef?

Absolutely haram! /s

[Raidonrai]

Can anyone actually provide an argument as to how the changes made are positive, accepting that "it's more realistic" on its own just isn't valid?

It really seems like it just subtracts from gameplay through the means of breaking insurgency, adding to frustration from not being able to do reasonable damage at range, and effectively removing multiple weapon-types from the game through obsolescence while simultaneously granting some weapons god-tier status when they were previously already considered strong.

I just don't see the point.

[solidfire93]

That's the thing mate, it may or may not stop the person, depending on what it hits exactly and the circumstances, like how much adrenaline there is involved and the specific composition of that persons body.
Even a hit in the vital organs isn't necessarily an instant takedown, the guy might still be able to keep walking for a good while.

DEVs said that the effects of the difference in ammo types and barrel length will be added later, so we'll see how that will affect things.

like this guy ? Warning : Graphic vid (combat footage)

ISIS fighter films his own death on GoPro helmet camera | Daily Mail Online


can we all agree that the Old system was far better than this one... i mean before we get the armor Update, infy gameplay had no issues... everybody was having fun and nobody complained about this gun and that weapons or even shotgun or Pistols being OP or weak !!

just like the turret update this damage system should be reverted to the old one... until the Beta testers can test more and hopefully the Dev's make it better...

[YAK-R]

just like the turret update this damage system should be reverted to the old one... until the Beta testers can test more and hopefully the Dev's make it better...

Culture among testers isn't to try things and see if we like them or not. But rather to make sure they're working as intended. If you take the intended damage by 7.62 and your game doesn't CTD, it's tested (rage quits excluded). Testers =/= game designers.

Whilst of course we are allowed give our inputs and suggestions (access to the team discussion forum) and it is encouraged, they are only that, inputs and suggestions. The bulk of testing work is combing maps for things like floaters, trees in houses, buggy trenches etc

[FlyingR]

Maybe there should be a general vote for the whole community to decide whether they like it or not?

If the great majority of the community doesn't like it then it should definitely be reverted to what it was before.

Like most people said, why change something that isn't broken or that people had completely no problem with? Don't try to be so stubborn, listen to the community, we don't want this game to die!

[Frontliner]

Literally nothing wrong:

[inb4banned]

I had great fun playing La Drang yesterday, was just solo yoloing around the map, no need for comms or other squad members since my M14 outweighed any benefits they could bring. I could tell the enemies were really immersed when they tried attacking me with their funny AKs, SKSs, few Mosins (which I survived a hit to the chest from btw) and even a PPSH but they all fell after 1 shot each. They were probably discussing how cool, balanced and well thought out this new system is while giving up and spawning back only to face the same fate.

[Mostacho]

Literally nothing wrong:

I agree Frontiliner, It seems that the update is doing exactly as planned

It Barely changed balance,and yet, the disadvantaged teams are playing as professionals since then, and not getting raped at all

The game is also more tactical and strategic now

Going out lonewolf style with a m240 and raping everyone adds a lot of value to teamplay

The problems with hits detection were solved once and for all

Great job! m240/10

Edit: I forgot to write that balanced gameplay is dumb

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]M42 Zwilling;2163442']Have I ruined the game more than Mats yet?


7.62x51 at that range has barely changed, it is still 2-3 hit kill depending on distance.

.[/quote]

Yes, because one-shot automatic rifles are much better at punishing dumb plays than getting you out of them with PR's deviation and recoil.

[quote="blayas""]

Mats spoke about the higher damage, which helps against failures in the hits detection Logically.

low lethality destroys an environment conducive to a tactical game and strategic depthnes.

In addition, it should have realistic consistency based on palpable and realistic data And real principles and concepts when the data is not available or partial available, as the last change is moving to did, without arbitrary buffs or nerfs justified by a dumb balance].
[/quote]

[Vista]

I had great fun playing La Drang yesterday, was just solo yoloing around the map, no need for comms or other squad members since my M14 outweighed any benefits they could bring. I could tell the enemies were really immersed when they tried attacking me with their funny AKs, SKSs, few Mosins (which I survived a hit to the chest from btw) and even a PPSH but they all fell after 1 shot each. They were probably discussing how cool, balanced and well thought out this new system is while giving up and spawning back only to face the same fate.

Needs more attention, quoted.

[blayas]

Mostacho, Maybe you need to learn to distinguish what is the asymmetric balance of the stupid balance I wrote, but of course, we will not give chance for the other concepts to be improved and polished ... we can go back to a mechanic in which the guy without a vest Receives a 7.62x51 / 54 in the chest at 30m and can still fire at you, since the greatest fear of some here is exclusively that the weapon has its proper lethality ... And not with the loss or gain of lethality Without foundation based on the proper concepts, Which should be the real complaint, as I did in the excerpt that you supressed from my post, I did not like the update in a whole Because some factors and ballistic data have not been taken into account, as some have already demonstrated here, but I still think it should be handled with more patience by being on a proper path.

Of course, do not fear projectiles flying above you, you are sure of their reduced lethality in favor of '' balancing '', this means less concern about how players move, less concern about coverage and less concern about supporting or Receive support.

[Allahu Akbar]

Can anyone actually provide an argument as to how the changes made are positive, accepting that "it's more realistic" on its own just isn't valid?

It really seems like it just subtracts from gameplay through the means of breaking insurgency, adding to frustration from not being able to do reasonable damage at range, and effectively removing multiple weapon-types from the game through obsolescence while simultaneously granting some weapons god-tier status when they were previously already considered strong.

I just don't see the point.

It has some positives like sniper kit and certain smg(mp5 and ppsh, mostly) being nerfed.

[X-Alt]

people kill people

[Raidonrai]

It has some positives like sniper kit and certain smg(mp5 and ppsh, mostly) being nerfed.

How are either of those remotely positive? Those exact guns are what I'm talking about when I refer to the update "effectively removing multiple weapon-types from the game through obsolescence".

The Sniper kit in its current form is obsolete, there is now literally no reason to take a Sniper over an AR/Marksman when both have infinitely more killing potential than a bolt action rifle that takes two shots to kill.

There is also no reason to take a PPSH over a plain old AK now. Previously the PPSH was a relatively niche weapon strong in CQC but weaker at distance, acting as the perfect tool for a more aggressive, close quarters, role; a breacher. Now, without the realistic option of using this unique weapon to play in a different, more specialised, role, the breacher kit is essentially just a Rifleman that swapped out his ammo for some C4.

Diversity between viable weapons provides genuine depth to the game and allows for differing play-styles.

What's the point in having unique and diverse weapons available to different kits/factions if they are objectively worse than the standard?

[X-Alt]

There is also no reason to take a PPSH over a plain old AK now.

The AK was designed as an SMG to shit on the PPSH, you know?