Infantry weapon damage changes

[Rabbit]

. PR factions are assumed to use Type IV body armor (most modern armies either have this as standard or use it to some degree), which is rated to stop a single round of .30-06 AP point blank. Neither 5.56 or 7.62 will get through on the first shot, but 7.62's higher KE makes it more likely to break ribs and cause other internal injuries even without penetrating. They will break the plates and may get through on the second hit. 9mm hits won't wreck the plates as quickly or cause nearly as much internal damage.

Very true, however most things in pr are scaled back a bit, zoom on weapons/ flight physics for jets, landing lengths for them, reload times, repair times for vehicles. I don't see why the current version cannot be scaled back a bit as well.

[Bonecrusher76]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]M42 Zwilling;2167414']

PR factions are assumed to use Type IV body armor [/quote]

Ok, then the Level IV (ceramic) plates should realistically take multiple rifle rounds without the wearer taking any damage at all. No broken ribs or anything of the sort. No penetration and no backside plate deformation = no damage from 5.56 and 7.62 rifles. The energy delivered to the target is no greater than the energy delivered to the shooter's shoulder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CYsV1Xer9Y

I really appreciate your work, but you know how unhappy I am with the changes, particularly to the sniper rifle.

[quote="Rabbit""]repair times for vehicles. I don't see why the current version cannot be scaled back a bit as well.[/quote]

The vehicle repair time is another excellent point about the difference between strict realism and gameplay. One guy in a repair truck isn't going to realistically repair a badly damaged vehicle in five minutes.

[X-Alt]

Ok, then the Level IV (ceramic) plates should realistically take multiple rifle rounds without the wearer taking any damage at all. No broken ribs or anything of the sort. No penetration and no backside plate deformation = no damage from 5.56 and 7.62 rifles. The energy delivered to the target is no greater than the energy delivered to the shooter's shoulder.

lol of course you're going to break a few ribs and suffocate

[M42 Zwilling]

Ok, then the Level IV (ceramic) plates should realistically take multiple rifle rounds without the wearer taking any damage at all. No broken ribs or anything of the sort. No penetration and no backside plate deformation = no damage from 5.56 and 7.62 rifles. The energy delivered to the target is no greater than the energy delivered to the shooter's shoulder.

No. Even ignoring the difference between actual and felt recoil, you have confused momentum with kinetic energy. Momentum is conserved, but the KE of the recoiling firearm is far lower than the KE of the bullet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_of_firearms#Kinetic_energy

There are plenty of accounts and videos of people getting shot in body armor, you can look some up. Usually they are knocked to the ground breathless and get severe bruising at a minimum. I don't think I have the link anymore, but I remember one instance for example where a British soldier was shot by a sniper, probably using 7.62x54r. The sniper was several hundred meters away, but the bullet still hit him hard enough to knock him to the ground and leave him with heavy bruising and a couple of cracked ribs.

[Bonecrusher76]

I remember one instance for example where a British soldier was shot by a sniper, probably using 7.62x54r. The sniper was several hundred meters away, but the bullet still hit him hard enough to knock him to the ground and leave him with heavy bruising and a couple of cracked ribs.

But in PR, when a sniper shoots a player in the plates three times, they just drop their patches and go about their business.

[Allahu Akbar]

Because no one has ever came on here and tried to tell everyone what they think they know???

LOL

You did try but we shut you down.

LOL

Ok, then the Level IV (ceramic) plates should realistically take multiple rifle rounds without the wearer taking any damage at all. No broken ribs or anything of the sort. No penetration and no backside plate deformation = no damage from 5.56 and 7.62 rifles. The energy delivered to the target is no greater than the energy delivered to the shooter's shoulder.

You're confused about ratings of armor.
I have already addressed your problem before, now I repeat myself:

Level IV doesn't mean it's Level III but stops same amount of 30-06 AP.
It means it's rated to stop one large AP round, not multiples(it may or may not do it) like Level III which is 6 7.61x51 ball ammo.

It's generally made out of ceramic material because the amount of steel to properly cover torso and maintain that rating would be too heavy for use by most people effectively. Ceramic material crack, and a cracked one is a lot less effective at stopping subsequent rounds.

But in PR, when a sniper shoots a player in the plates three times, they just drop their patches and go about their business.

If you shot someone three times, unless at very extreme ranges, in torso and he didn't go down; you're a victim of bad hit registration.



I still have not seen a fix for 1911 damage, a .45 shouldn't do lower damage than 9mm in every case.

---


As for assetwhoring, PR really needs FH2's armor angle system.
Because it looks like there's no such thing and thus any shot that grazes side of tank at 89 degree angle will do extra damage like it's straight-on, which is bullshit.

[fecht_niko]

You did try but we shut you down.

LOL



You're confused about ratings of armor.
I have already addressed your problem before, now I repeat myself:

Level IV doesn't mean it's Level III but stops same amount of 30-06 AP.
It means it's rated to stop one large AP round, not multiples(it may or may not do it) like Level III which is 6 7.61x51 ball ammo.

It's generally made out of ceramic material because the amount of steel to properly cover torso and maintain that rating would be too heavy for use by most people effectively. Ceramic material crack, and a cracked one is a lot less effective at stopping subsequent rounds.



If you shot someone three times, unless at very extreme ranges, in torso and he didn't go down; you're a victim of bad hit registration.



I still have not seen a fix for 1911 damage, a .45 shouldn't do lower damage than 9mm in every case.

---


As for assetwhoring, PR really needs FH2's armor angle system.
Because it looks like there's no such thing and thus any shot that grazes side of tank at 89 degree angle will do extra damage like it's straight-on, which is bullshit.

Your facts dont make sense because alternative facts say that NATO things are better.

[Vista]

I guess """only""" 50 people complained, there goes 45 pages of feedback. Pack it up guys - I guess nothing will be done.

[YAK-R]

I guess """only""" 50 people complained, there goes 45 pages of feedback. Pack it up guys - I guess nothing will be done.

Longest feedback thread in searchable history. *nothing to see here, move along*

[Bullseye2550]

I guess """only""" 50 people complained

51 now ...

[Bonecrusher76]

Level IV doesn't mean it's Level III but stops same amount of 30-06 AP.
It means it's rated to stop one large AP round, not multiples(it may or may not do it) like Level III which is 6 7.61x51 ball ammo.

PR players aren't using AP ammo. While I agree that there are a lot of variables, Level IV ceramic armor will generally stop more than one FMJ bullet. I think we can reasonably assume that the PR player isn't getting hit in the exact same spot everytime.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CYsV1Xer9Y

[Kingy]

I guess """only""" 50 people complained, there goes 45 pages of feedback. Pack it up guys - I guess nothing will be done.

It's also the third most viewed thread in this section in just over two months.

And I think we all agree that fifty people is quite a lot, especially when you consider that only a small percentage of PR's playerbase even visit the forums.

[Vista]

It's also the third most viewed thread in this section in just over two months.

And I think we all agree that fifty people is quite a lot, especially when you consider that only a small percentage of PR's playerbase even visit the forums.

It's not just that. The PR team (apparently) counted who was for and against these changes and the results are quite clear. People in general dislike the current model, it's quite straightforward. But for some reason this model keeps being pushed down our throats. I really wish the DEVs could wake up and realise this... This fever dream of bullet mechanics isn't sustainable for the sake of PR's gameplay.

[mectus11]

I find it ridiculous how the changes aren't being review to be further tweaked/scaled down while ignoring the feedback of your active community members that have stuck around for a while now to know how the game feels and what's different about it.

The changes should not be flat out reverted and I haven't seen many people call for that but that they should be review, tweaked and possibly scaled down more, it was a sudden change to all of the players and it's never a good policy to shove it down people's throats and accept them to roll over with it.

This is obviously a big issue right now and ignoring it is pretty dumb, going with an attitude that this will blow over will just make your current active community members flat out leave.

Weapons like Shotguns have been rendered useless when they were the top weapon to clear out a building with, also the gamemode insurgency, when I played and this has been my personal experience, the advantage that the blufor side usually has is the body armour and how the insurgent weapons barely had any damage to them to down someone. I usually had to empty an entire clip into a person to make sure they are down, now this is my personal experience.



The playerbase is far from thousands, whether you want to deny it or not, there is a decline in the playerbase and the quality of players. We're seeing a lot of veteran players leave from public play and only come back to play the PR Tournament.

We've also seen how the devs ignored the PRT and rolled out the 1.4 update that affected the entire campaign of their official tournament, this disregard to the community upsets me and we see it happening again now.

These changes have also affected players with high pings, players where the minimum wage is low and they get drawn in by a free to play game, players from the middle east, eastern europe and countries where the wage is low. They get affected aswell by this damage model and disregarding that is also not a wise choice.

I don't see the focus on the "realism" that people are so hell bent on, sure the game is called "Project Reality", sure it's a tactical shooter but it's no military simulator, the gameplay should be fun, fluid and accessible for the regular player. I don't want to bring up charts on body armour or another chart on which calibre does the most damage.

I've even seen that some of your own QA testers want the changes to be scaled down where everyone can reach a happy middle ground, if you don't want to listen to your community then surely you can listen to your own QA team?

Anyway, this is my view on things, we can reach a happy middleground but it seems that the community doesn't matter anymore because it's been a while now even with Vista wasting his time and proposing changes that a number of people seem to agree with but hey it seems like our opinions don't matter in the end of it.

[LimitJK]

careful wording out of respect for the work of the devs and suggestion of possible compromising solutions shouldnt be mistaken as approval.

i am personally highly in favor of reverting the changes - until there is a proper and thought through new concept.

the current system is gamey and arbitrary (and less realistic than its predecessor).

[Kingy]

It's not just that. The PR team (apparently) counted who was for and against these changes and the results are quite clear. People in general dislike the current model, it's quite straightforward.

My experience in-game is that, at best, people are indifferent to the changes made. I haven't met anyone vocalizing an even modestly positive view so far.

[viirusiiseli]

meanwhile armor turrets are still bugged with inertia cause the shite update never got properly fixed

dont expect any better from this

rip inf lmao

[mectus11]

My experience in-game is that, at best, people are indifferent to the changes made. I haven't met anyone vocalizing an even modestly positive view so far.

I'm dumb ignore this.

It just so happens that there a lot of newer players that weren't around before the changes rolled up, who would've thunk that people can't speak up on something they never experienced before.

That's just grasping on straws, these newer players never experienced the gun player before the new damage model and most of them don't even take part in the discussion on the forum.

[Kingy]

I think you need to re-read my last two posts.

[Allahu Akbar]

PR players aren't using AP ammo. While I agree that there are a lot of variables, Level IV ceramic armor will generally stop more than one FMJ bullet. I think we can reasonably assume that the PR player isn't getting hit in the exact same spot everytime.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CYsV1Xer9Y

You're assuming a lot of things.

Also, just because a round isn't top of the line AP that doesn't mean it's a lot weaker.

Kinetic energy is still mostly there even if the bullet itself isn't considered AP.

Your video shows how it has deformation at the back after multiple rounds.

Also, torso area in PR covers a lot more than what a plate would cover, it's an acceptable averaging of number of shots(from 1 to multiple) it takes to go through unless you're implying PR soldiers are wearing all-around armour(which is obviously not represented on the model).