v1.6.1 - Gameplay changes

[Wolfenheimer]

I'm digging the patch stamina change.
If medics are less likely to make risky revives because those revives are less viable, that means less dead medics and less squad wipes. Also, less players who would rather beg a medic to save them from their own poor positioning choices rather than admit they messed up, especially once they get told by enough medics that they aren't coming. All in all, I think the visible game impact from this change won't be drastic, but I like the choice in this case to lean towards getting players to make smarter decisions about their lives/tickets, both from the medics and the aggressive players.
Nice job on the update!

[PBAsydney]

Very happy about RNG disable adjustment.

[Filamu]

Literarly 99/100 medics do not use this mechanic at all. I used it maybe once and I still never feelt I could not go for some revive.

All good medics know about patch revive. It allows fairly risky revives, that run back into safety as far back as you want. Great for getting guys up while there is a fight going on. You can also revive more than one player, sometimes even a squad, which all can run for nearly 3 mins in a direction.

Kinda sad to see it go, mostly because the medic role will be less fun. It is those risky revives that can separate the top, and with lower skill ceiling, maybe less people want to play it.

[Web_cole]

Here is the thing, the central conceit of PR (infantry) gameplay is that this feels good:

Fight > Revive > Repeat

And this feels bad:

Fight > Respawn > Repeat

I won't get too much into the why, but winning the fight, saving the tickets, holding the ground you had and pushing on without having to reset (if that's relevant) feels good, it feels like an achievement.

This is the main hook, the positive feedback loop at the heart of PR. So it seems obvious to me that if you fuck with medics you fuck with everything else. There is a huge knock-on effect. Right now playing to get into that sweet spot in the feedback loop is A++ gameplay. Right now playing as a medic (for those who enjoy it) is A++ gameplay. This is very much the definition of if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Dragging is a cool secondary or tertiary medic tool. If it becomes the primary and only tool then everything above changes. Maybe not a lot, but little changes can have big implications. And again, if something is working near perfectly then big implications are not what you want to hear.

[sweedensniiperr]

i think you are overreacting to how much this will affect the medic playstyle. i think it's an alright change so far. If your revive isn't safe it's down to 2 things:
1. your squadmate died in a dumb position
2. YOUR SQUAD hasn't secured the position

Yes those "combat revives" might not happen as much now or they will just slightly methodical. The risk of those revives were that if the area wasn't as safe you thought your pal and maybe even you would end of wounded, one of you killed. And he would have to respawn anyway. Now say you don't do the patch and instead drag but the area wasn't safe enough you'd end up 2 wounded instead of one killed. A slightly better outcome.

I literally went on to test this on local now. Dropping a patch on some at 10% will make their hp up to 30%. Wait for the stamina to go up a bit and you can sprint again.

Yes I cannot go against these arguments: choice

You can also revive more than one player, sometimes even a squad, which all can run for nearly 3 mins in a direction.

When you think about this, isn't it kind of dumb?

[Web_cole]

i think you are overreacting to how much this will affect the medic playstyle. i think it's an alright change so far. If your revive isn't safe it's down to 2 things:
1. your squadmate died in a dumb position
2. YOUR SQUAD hasn't secured the position

I think you are cherry picking examples that support your position. If every "good" player in the game never went down then I would agree with you. But that is obviously not the case. If you spawn in sooner or later you are going to catch a bullet. Any player of sufficient skill and judgement should be able to recognise when they made a decision that got them killed and when they just got killed. It happens.

You are therefore ignoring probably the largest band of scenarios which is the big gray area in the middle. The two opposing squads fighting to a stalemate and looking for revives to tip the balance in their favour sort of scenario. The infantry fight on literally any forest map sort of scenario. The last man recovery scenario. And dozens of others.

These are the most intense and most interesting aspects of medic play and of infantry fighting and they will be different. I will concede that different does not mean worse by definition, but I question the judgement of making alterations to something that currently works amazingly well.

[Nate.]

Let's see how it plays out, shall we? In one week we can open a feedback thread on new medic meta and how it influences gameplay. There could also be further measures to refine this new system, e.g. increasde healing speed or something.

[Bastiannn]

Weird to see these stamina nerfs implemented before a better stamina depletion system for when having to jump over every little thing and stuff like that.

[Frontliner]

Weird to see these stamina nerfs implemented before a better stamina depletion system for when having to jump over every little thing and stuff like that.

It would be quite uplifting if you were to tell us what a "better stamina depletion system" could look like before moaning about a change that's by and large irrelevant. SO WHAT if you can't patch+revive anymore and have your patient run away instantly, is it that much of a hassle to ask an adult to adapt his playstyle to this new reality of gameplay?

About the "having to jump over stuff that would not hinder a person's movement IRL", we're all aware of that, but it's not something we can simply wish to go away. Things are a bit more tricky in the territory of 0s and 1s, it probably requires more work than its worth.

[Rabbit]

Things are a bit more tricky in the territory of 0s and 1s, it probably requires more work than its worth.

Actually its just 0.4

[Web_cole]

SO WHAT if you can't patch+revive anymore and have your patient run away instantly, is it that much of a hassle to ask an adult to adapt his playstyle to this new reality of gameplay?

I may be able to adapt to walking around on my hands instead of my feet but my ability to adapt has very little relevance when determining whether it would be a good idea or not.

[Bastiannn]

It would be quite uplifting if you were to tell us what a "better stamina depletion system" could look like before moaning about a change that's by and large irrelevant. SO WHAT if you can't patch+revive anymore and have your patient run away instantly, is it that much of a hassle to ask an adult to adapt his playstyle to this new reality of gameplay?

About the "having to jump over stuff that would not hinder a person's movement IRL", we're all aware of that, but it's not something we can simply wish to go away. Things are a bit more tricky in the territory of 0s and 1s, it probably requires more work than its worth.

I haven't really complained about the changes themselves yet, but more about the fact that a not-needed/not-prioritised nerf made it in game BEFORE an improvement to the stamina jumping depletion. Do I even need to say which thing players consider worse for gameplay?

As for "why don't you suggest something instead of complaining" I see a couple of DEVs talking about it, aswell as Casualty having ideas that seem good to experiment with and a suggestion thread made by him, so the ideas are certainly there, but priorities I guess.

Weird to see you state the change itself is irrelevant, but then you yourself admit that "adults need to adapt their own playstyles because of it" btw.

[sweedensniiperr]

I think you are cherry picking examples that support your position. If every "good" player in the game never went down then I would agree with you. But that is obviously not the case. If you spawn in sooner or later you are going to catch a bullet. Any player of sufficient skill and judgement should be able to recognise when they made a decision that got them killed and when they just got killed. It happens.

Absolutely.

You are therefore ignoring probably the largest band of scenarios which is the big gray area in the middle. The two opposing squads fighting to a stalemate and looking for revives to tip the balance in their favour sort of scenario. The infantry fight on literally any forest map sort of scenario. The last man recovery scenario. And dozens of others.

Not really. If the fight is literally 50/50(which also is very unusual let's be fair) the squad that will come out on top is the one with the better(if we're being really simple here) A: medic(s) B: better supporting players. I don't think this will change with this particular change.

These are the most intense and most interesting aspects of medic play and of infantry fighting and they will be different. I will concede that different does not mean worse by definition, but I question the judgement of making alterations to something that currently works amazingly well.

This is really my point. I can see why they made the change and it stands to see how it holds up. Changes to the game have and CAN be reverted as we've seen quite recently but also previously(remember the floaty turrets?)

[Woxbel]

It would be quite uplifting if you were to tell us what a "better stamina depletion system" could look like before moaning about a change that's by and large irrelevant. SO WHAT if you can't patch+revive anymore and have your patient run away instantly, is it that much of a hassle to ask an adult to adapt his playstyle to this new reality of gameplay?

About the "having to jump over stuff that would not hinder a person's movement IRL", we're all aware of that, but it's not something we can simply wish to go away. Things are a bit more tricky in the territory of 0s and 1s, it probably requires more work than its worth.

I am sorry I have to say I find this a very frustrating response to this thread by a PR staff member, He also seems to imply that He is speaking for the team which makes it worse.(“ It would be quite uplifting if you were to tell us what a” , "we're all aware of that, but it's not something we can simply wish to go away.")

Like no matter how anyone else feels to me(Medic only player) this change seems like something that will change a main part of how I play/enjoy the game. And once others and me mention the fact they dislike this change his response is basically Grow up/Deal with it. That doesn’t really make me feel welcome or taken serious.

Yes you put effort and time into making this game and I am thankful for that and if you make a certain decision on the game design front than that is your choice. Leaving me and any other players with two choices either deal with it or stop playing I get that.

All that being said I still think it is a very frustrating and dismissive/hostile way to respond to feedback.

For now I am going to follow Nate his suggestion and see how it plays since that only seems fair and maybe I did jump the gun a bit with my feedback. Although I will admit I am obviously still rather skeptical about the whole thing.

[Rabbit]

I am sorry I have to say I find this a very frustrating response to this thread by a PR staff member, He also seems to imply that He is speaking for the team which makes it worse.(“ It would be quite uplifting if you were to tell us what a” , "we're all aware of that, but it's not something we can simply wish to go away.")

its actually pretty easy to change.

[mectus11]

Mixed feelings about the stamina change, just makes life harder for medics it will just result in people not bothering and giving up because of the hassle, the rest though I love.

Personally, I'm just not a fan of anything that changes infantry gameplay.

[transpilot]

Do it the pov way: just dont die.

[Aleon]

If you don't want people to use patches that way, at least allow dragging while prone. Being crouched trying to drag people for a combat revive is a death sentence 99% of the time, as it combines being slow with being visible in one big useless combo.

Since you are changing this anyway, could youat least make it so that you have 1% stamina at all times so you can jump over things? PR is full of obstacles that provide zero cover (like doorstops or curbs) but require you to jump over, and right now if you have less than 10% health you are just stuck.

[Rabbit]

Prone dragging when? Because being crouched trying to drag people for a combat revive is a death sentence 99% of the time, as it combines being slow and being visible in one big useless combo.

Yeah that's pretty accurate.

[AlonTavor]

Since you are changing this anyway, could youat least make it so that you have 1% stamina at all times so you can jump over things? PR is full of obstacles that provide zero cover (like doorstops or curbs) but require you to jump over, and right now if you have less than 10% health you are just stuck.

Lack of health or stamina never blocked jumping. There's a 2-3 seconds delay from prone->standing before you can jump