An Inaccuracy of the M1 Garand

[WingWalker]

Well, since I shoot Garands, I've been trying to deal with this emotionally since the M1 was put in. I figured it was for game play maybe, or mechanics of the game? Either way it is not very realistic, and really hinders your tactics in game.

So I thought I would mention that in real life, you CAN eject the clip of a loaded M1 Garand, and put in a new one.

You pull the bolt back and lock it open, and there is a "button" on the left side that will eject the clip, with/without rounds in it.

With only 8 rounds It would be really helpful to have the realistic ability to do a tactical reload, like almost any other firearm in PR, when you are about to jump into the fight and really need a full clip.

[Mineral]

We can only have one reload type in this game.

[robert357]

So because of that we can't reload a gun? Woah, vintage 1999 thinking!

Seriously, it's very annoying. You can fire one bullet from Kar98k and load full clip but you cannot reload Garand...

[Rabbit]

So because of that we can't reload a gun? Woah, vintage 1999 thinking!

Seriously, it's very annoying. You can fire one bullet from Kar98k and load full clip but you cannot reload Garand...

Its not vintage thinking; its vintage engine.

[robert357]

So? There are several animation issues because of engine limitations Slides on pistols magically slide back when you reload them. Same with warhead on RPGs that just falling out. Just make Garand do "ping" when you press R. I don't care how its looks (like many other people) because I know about engine limitations.

Just small note. In BF:BC2 and BF1943 Garand also have one animation yet you can reload it as I said before. That why I said "vintage thinking" because last time I cannot reload this weapon that has one animation was in Medal of Honor games.

[AfterDune]

It's been a while for me, but as far as I know this has to do with the weapon being set to autoreload. If autoreload is enabled, you get the "ping" after firing your last bullet. The "ping" is part of the reload animation.

The downside of autoreload enabled is that you can't reload 'mid clip'.

Not having autoreload enabled will remove the "ping" from happening after firing your last bullet. You'll get it when you press "R", which is awkward and more people will 'complain' about that, than not being able to reload mid clip.

These are the only options, the engine doesn't allow both, as unrealistic as that may be. So as Rabbit said, vintage engine, not something we can change - or know how to change.

[robert357]

Well, that's unfortunate... and strange. But well, BF2 engine is damn strange.

[SemlerPDX]

Its not vintage thinking; its vintage engine.

well said

[Bonvi]

So I thought I would mention that in real life, you CAN eject the clip of a loaded M1 Garand, and put in a new one.

In real life you can also load rounds one by one to through the top of the clip that's inside the magazine. Should this too be implemented?

[WingWalker]

In real life you can also load rounds one by one to through the top of the clip that's inside the magazine. Should this too be implemented?

Not really.

That would be stupid, and not at all realistic.

You would have to eject a live round manually, the bolt doesn't lock open for you (only when the clip is ejected), if you open the bolt it extracts whats in the chamber (a loaded round). If you shoot, it automatically loads the next round, there is no switch to stop that.

1. hold the bolt open (your thumb around the sight works)
2. stop just short of ejecting the round so you can grab it with your other hand
3. pull the bolt all the way back and hold it
4. grab your round/s to insert while holding the bolt back
5. try to push it/them into the clip which in turn depresses the release mechanism also
6. while holding the bolt back still you then have to find that round you ejected out of the chamber to do this in the first place
7. push it into the clip also
8. then release the bolt and it should slam forward stripping the first round (though sometimes you have to help it)

...and wallah, you have topped off your clip.

BTW, it would also be stupid because you would have to unload the clips before hand. Soldiers with the M1 did not carry loose rounds of 30-06, they were preloaded in clips, and the clips into packs.

HOWEVER, you can very easily, with the push, of a button just eject the clip with whatever rounds are in it and load the next, and that was something Soldiers actually did IRL:

1. pull the bolt open and hold it
2. push button and let it pop out as the bolt locks open
3. grab your next full clip and push in while bracing the bolt with your palm

[Rabbit]

HOWEVER, you can very easily, with the push, of a button just eject the clip with whatever rounds are in it and load the next, and that was something Soldiers actually did IRL:

Its not nearly as clean as you are trying to make it sound. Rounds spill out of the damn clip when you reload mid clip and are usually pulling out sever that fell out while taking the clip out.

[WingWalker]

Its not nearly as clean as you are trying to make it sound. Rounds spill out of the damn clip when you reload mid clip and are usually pulling out sever that fell out while taking the clip out.

I'm not sure which way you mean.

I didn't mean to try to re-load the ejected clip. Those rounds would be all over the ground, and you would have to put down your rifle to find everything, and then line up and insert all the rounds back into the clip.

Trying to do that would be even more retarded than trying to top off the clip while it is still inside the rifle (for the reasons stated above), like you could with a bolt action's magazine. Which is what was being talked about.


What I was talking about is easy and clean because:

You hit the button with your free hand, the whole clip with all the rounds left in it, pop out with a "ping."

Even if there is only 1 round left in the clip ejects.

It falls out, and you grab your next full clip of 8 and load it into the rifle, which is also normal to do with an M1.

[Rabbit]

I'm not sure which way you mean.

I didn't mean to try to re-load the ejected clip. Those rounds would be all over the ground, and you would have to put down your rifle to find everything, and then line up and insert all the rounds back into the clip.

Trying to do that would be even more retarded than trying to top off the clip while it is still inside the rifle (for the reasons stated above), like you could with a bolt action's magazine. Which is what was being talked about.


What I was talking about is easy and clean because:

You hit the button with your free hand, the whole clip with all the rounds left in it, pop out with a "ping."

Even if there is only 1 round left in the clip ejects.

It falls out, and you grab your next full clip of 8 and load it into the rifle, which is also normal to do with an M1.

I know what you mean but the issue lies with the clip. Once the first round is chambered the clip is then unstable. The feeder system fills in the spot to keep the rounds tight and working upwards. Once you push the feeder system down to remove the clip, all the remain rounds become loose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPWVnHa6wnA

[WingWalker]

Thanks for the video, but it was more informative for me to try these different tactical reloads with my own M1, IRL.

First of all the clip is still securely locked in the rifle until you shoot the last round or you press the button to eject it.

On loading a new round into the clip(while in the rifle):
As you press the new round into it, the spring under the clip keeps tension on all the rounds left in the clip, they are not loose at all.
In fact they were in really tight, and it was hard to push it into the clip. That added to making it more difficult.

If you had the partially loaded clip out of the rifle with less than 6 rounds they are loose in it, but that does not happen when the clip is still in the rifle.

[Rabbit]

My point is, a mid reload chip looks VASTLY different. Not only do you have to place your hands elsewhere and hold the rifle differently, its a much more complicated way to reload and simply having it "pop out" is too far off. PR can only have one reload type.

We can only have one reload type in this game.

[lao]

Not really.

That would be stupid, and not at all realistic.

You would have to eject a live round manually, the bolt doesn't lock open for you (only when the clip is ejected), if you open the bolt it extracts whats in the chamber (a loaded round). If you shoot, it automatically loads the next round, there is no switch to stop that.

1. hold the bolt open (your thumb around the sight works)
2. stop just short of ejecting the round so you can grab it with your other hand
3. pull the bolt all the way back and hold it
4. grab your round/s to insert while holding the bolt back
5. try to push it/them into the clip which in turn depresses the release mechanism also
6. while holding the bolt back still you then have to find that round you ejected out of the chamber to do this in the first place
7. push it into the clip also
8. then release the bolt and it should slam forward stripping the first round (though sometimes you have to help it)

1. First, I would like to address your first statement: I don't think it would be stupid, as it makes perfect sense when firing from distance in a safe position and anticipating an enemy attack, where you better take your 20 seconds
reloading than wasting AMMO and or facing enemy with only 5-7 shots in the magazine. And yeah, you can just spread your jacket to catch the ejected round and don't have to micromanage it that much. Or just drop it to the table/window sill, or just say "F* IT, I'm in trouble" and let it go wasted.

HOWEVER, trying to directly translate real world features into the game don't always work well, as it has its limitations (i.e. not enough detail in maps for elaborate covers or no footprints in snow and mud at all):

2. WW2 maps are already suffering serious balance issues and people often don't vote for ww2 maps if they are landing on GER side because of how OP Garand plays aganst Kar98k, so up to this moment I honestly believed not being able to reload Garand mid clip was actually a feature. Admittedly, midclip reloading probably wouldn't change the way Garands are now all that much... Not sure.


While we could alleviate this problem by changing playstyle and adjusting it to real life (for the said reason real German infantry combat was extremely MG34/MG42 centered), this tactic sure requires more teamplay and understanding of players.
Another way to actually let us reload (an already OP) Garand midclip could be by changing the fighting sides proportions, i.e. give Germans number superiority, say, fix it at 60% players against 40%, but I'm not sure as to whether 60 vs 40 rounds are at all possible with the engine.
Yet another way to have an arcady but "realistic" midclip reloading on Garand (as op as it is now) would be to nerf its damage as compared to Kar98k. However, I don't think anybody would agree to that, I personally think that would harm realism more than not being able to reload a Garand. Speaking of which, I believe we already have realism issues with Garand doing less damage than Kar98k, even though they have same bullet weight and energy. We also don't have M1 Carbine 30-rounds magazines, which entered service in October 1940. (Admittedly, they were never as widespread as 10round mags).

My bottom line is, it would be nice and I would love to be able to reload that Garand midclip, but chances are it's gonna need balance tweaking for playability. Note I'm not a dev.
P.S. Congrats on your nice little collection, people in most countries rarely have this opportunity.

[lao]

Speaking about German MGs, they are not 100% realistic in game in a few respects (e.g. no barrel overheating and changing mechanics), but I wouldn't want a nerf for them... And most players wouldn't, as it would make playing on Ger side too miserable of an experience.