Weapon switch deviation too drastic

[UncleSmek]

first you got to really think through the gameplay implications.
last time someone meddled with such core mechanics it was a shitshow.
to quote someone who already summarized the matter quite well many winters ago :
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showth ... p?t=133834

Read that thread and explain to me why anyone of us playing PR in 2020 should listen to their irrelevant opinions?

Chuva, as he is a jedi master he was ahead of his time.

Limitjk, as I know you, you always seize the moment to be correct but in this case you are not brother.

the point you seem to miss is that supression is about the fear to get shot. accuracy is no opposition, but necessity for supression. thats one of the reasons the marines are switching to the iar.

and about the range thing: the pkp (pkm?) scoped of the russian faction already reaches its limitations on appartement to appartement fighting on iron ridge and needs to be improved if at all changed

No.No.nO.NoNONO

[Coalz101]

You guys are still missing a point here, suppression does nothing in PR other than blur your vision for a while. Dedicated players can still tap the AR or MG shooting at them while being suppressed but most will just reposition. Fixing that suppression issue might actually help the gameplay with an AR or MG that's not fully deviated.

[Rabbit]

You guys are still missing a point here, suppression does nothing in PR other than blur your vision for a while. Dedicated players can still tap the AR or MG shooting at them while being suppressed but most will just reposition. Fixing that suppression issue might actually help the gameplay with an AR or MG that's not fully deviated.

And how do you propose fixing suppression? doing that poorly done bf 3 way?

[Mats391]

Please stay on topic. This is feedback about weapon switch deviation.

[Coalz101]

Please stay on topic. This is feedback about weapon switch deviation.

Apologize, Back on the main topic though

I don't really see an issue with the deviation for ARs, An AR that is not fully deviated can still hit a target if you aim correctly. I guess it may vary from AR to AR but general the US ARs (All forms of US ARs that is) have relatively okay accuracy without being fully deviated.

On the other hand, factions that use AKs as their AR and even the DP 28 and MG 3 can benefit from lowering the deviation timer. But specifically the DP 28 and MG 3, since those guns are either hipfire or deployed.

[LimitJK]

Most MG's would actually be LESS accurate under my recoil; deviation would actually be less punishing.

... which in my comment im arguing against. looks like im kind of agreeing more with your past self.
MG has to be accurate to be able to effectively suppress.
MG has to have appropriatly long deviation times on this accuracy to balance this accuracy.

to visualize:

Read that thread and explain to me why anyone of us playing PR in 2020 should listen to their irrelevant opinions?

system hasnt changed since/ still addressing same questions.

No.No.nO.NoNONO

pls explain

[UncleSmek]

... which in my comment im arguing against. looks like im kind of agreeing more with your past self.
MG has to be accurate to be able to effectively suppress.
MG has to have appropriatly long deviation times on this accuracy to balance this accuracy.

to visualize:



system hasnt changed since/ still addressing same questions.

pls explain

The suppression and the psychological factor is there anyways. I am not talking about making the AR inaccurate but simply to make it less accurate for a return to the previous deploy settings.

[Nate.]

Updated in patch

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showth ... ost2207274
Updated weapon switch deviation to apply jump deviation instead of movement deviation. This settles faster.

[PatrickLA_CA]

I don't really see an issue with the deviation for ARs, An AR that is not fully deviated can still hit a target if you aim correctly..

Have you actually tried shooting 1,2,3,4,5 seconds after you deployed the AR? You can hit a target, but on a different map. The issue with ARs is as Smek noted, they are lazer accurate once settled, but that is a different issue from settling their deviation. They need to have their minimum deviation increased a bit, but the deviation settling timer drastically decreased, after all, you're slamming a bipod on a solid surface

[UncleSmek]

Have you actually tried shooting 1,2,3,4,5 seconds after you deployed the AR? You can hit a target, but on a different map. The issue with ARs is as Smek noted, they are lazer accurate once settled, but that is a different issue from settling their deviation. They need to have their minimum deviation increased a bit, but the deviation settling timer drastically decreased, after all, you're slamming a bipod on a solid surface

Exactly, its the "slamming" that is so perfectly simulated.

[Coalz101]

They need to have their minimum deviation increased a bit, but the deviation settling timer drastically decreased, after all, you're slamming a bipod on a solid surface

if you consider the air as solid surface as well then, I guess you're right. but in most usage cases (From what I see) People with bipods (MG3 primarily) have them deployed whenever their expect enemy around the corner (In the middle of the air since you can't ADS without deploying). But that's a conversation for a whole other day.


I suggest if we've going to do what you said, nerf all MG/AR bipods so that they are not able to deploy unless the player is against a wall, flat on the ground or through a window in which a bipod would realistically be placed. No more invisible floating bipod stands, but I'm pretty sure the engine won't allow that so work with what we got.

[Nate.]

I suggest if we've going to do what you said, nerf all MG/AR bipods so that they are not able to deploy unless the player is against a wall, flat on the ground or through a window in which a bipod would realistically be placed. No more invisible floating bipod stands, but I'm pretty sure the engine won't allow that so work with what we got.

Correct - this discussion has so far ignored that in other games deploying bipod only works when prone or when there's an elevated thing to put it on..

Maybe the settle deviation is a means to balance out the fact that you can have your AR deployed anywhere at any height/stance without regard for the environment. How shit would AR's be if you could only use them prone in a forest ...
Unfortunately settle time can't be adapted based on the stance.

[axytho]

Have you actually tried shooting 1,2,3,4,5 seconds after you deployed the AR? You can hit a target, but on a different map. The issue with ARs is as Smek noted, they are lazer accurate once settled, but that is a different issue from settling their deviation. They need to have their minimum deviation increased a bit, but the deviation settling timer drastically decreased, after all, you're slamming a bipod on a solid surface

No, that's unrealistic and gives poor gameplay. No one dolphin dives with a M249 IRL, and after "slamming" your M249 down on a surface, you will find that it is is not directly in line with your face, that you have to adjust your aim, look through your scope again, reacquire your target and THEN you can open fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS_bM3Xlw7M

Takes him 7 seconds to go from standing up to prone and accurate, and 4 seconds to switch targets with a bren gun which is about the same weight as the M249.

And it also gives very poor gameplay. The point of the AR is to dominate long range, but react slowly. If you want to play a game where a machine gun = paintball gun with 100 rounds, there are plenty of alternatives.

[Coalz101]

Question @Devs, does Stamina affect Deviation, I think it should. A guy running around all day will take longer to settle a gun than a guy who was walking around or idling in one spot.

[Frontliner]

It doesn't depend on stamina and, looking at what's available to us in terms of settings, I expect us to be unable to link the two together.

[Coalz101]

It doesn't depend on stamina and, looking at what's available to us in terms of settings, I expect us to be unable to link the two together.

I'm sure there's maths somewhere that can get those two linked together. I don't know how the bf2 code works, but I'll assume something.

Is it possible to have deviation linked to key press and for how long the key is pressed. So lets say I've been holding shift for 5 seconds, so it takes an extra 2 seconds to deviate for every 5 seconds the key is pressed?

EDIT:
Isn't it linked to walking already, maybe just have a different setting for running/jumping. In a sense that would also relate it to stamia.

[Mats391]

Frontliner is talking about what BF2 offers out of the box and there nothing like that is possible. What you suggest is changing the code of how deviation is calculated. While it probably is within our possibilities, it way more work for probably little gain.

[Frontliner]

I'm sure there's maths somewhere that can get those two linked together. I don't know how the bf2 code works, but I'll assume something.

Your reasoning is coming from an assumption that game code has a mimic-ing relationship with our physical reality and that's just not the case. It has nothing to do with maths either instead it's the game having specific values and then calling onto that reference to do whatever with it(in layman's terms, before one of our IT gods rages at me for not knowing any better).

Is it possible to have deviation linked to key press and for how long the key is pressed. So lets say I've been holding shift for 5 seconds, so it takes an extra 2 seconds to deviate for every 5 seconds the key is pressed?

The system is a wee bit more intricate than my current understanding of it(since I'm only looking at the tweaker files), but I'm pretty sure that the game already takes movement speed into consideration when it calculates your "movement deviation" by having it build faster when sprinting rather than walking or crouch walking. Maybe it's just an impression I have?

In any event, what you're asking is already the case with moving, turning, shooting, but once you stop the interaction the game will slowly decay the deviation down to the minimum of your current weapon. It doesn't factor in exhaustion, Hit Points, whether or not you're in a squad or whatever other random thing you can come up with. The rate of build up and decay is specifically defined within a weapon's deviation setting and calls onto specific actions, the ones I mentioned as well as jumping and going(!) prone. The game also detects whether or not you ADS, and whether you're prone, crouched or standing. Nothing else is called or referenced by the deviation system currently.



What you're asking is whether or not it's possible to have another reference for the deviation and the answer to that is "I don't know". I don't know if the 5 deviation settings are all we have because they are hardcoded into the game's engine. If not, I guess it ought to be possible to get something done once we understand how the game itself contextualises the deviation in its own logic.