WW2 sucks for the germans

[dcm]

I can post screenshots of my squads doing well too. But that's not the point. Not everyone is as well coordinated or as skilled. Matter of fact is that the kar98's rof is inferior to the m1 garand. If; Nerfing the american weapons, Buffing the weapons surrounding and supporting the kar98, and/or increasing automatic firepower for both teams(mainly the german team), is out of the question? Then what can be done to bridge the gap? You cant just leave things as is. Or you'll end up with another Falklands like situation, where it's only really fun for one team. Remember infantry combat is the backbone of PR. Not everyone can fly or drive well, or even likes to use assets. It aint fun assaulting a position as germans or falklands brits because the opposition plainly outguns you.

The shine from ww2 is still fresh. But I see ww2 maps requested less and less in map votes. The only map that is consistently asked for is Omaha. And when it's in the vote, it only wins when put up against older or shittier or just plain over played maps like pavlovsk or masirah or muttrah respectively. Or chinese maps like shijia. Dont get me wrong I like ww2. But the implementation sucks. It comes so close to perfection and yet ww2 drops the ball on the home stretch.

[Outlawz7]

Garand was nerfed by being 2-shot kill for a while but apparently that was bad too.

[BubblyNinja]

Thread summary:

[Frontliner]

Not everyone is as well coordinated or as skilled. But that's not the point.

Friend, this is EXACTLY the point. If a squad runs around like headless chicken, a KDR like the above is an inconceiveable, once in a lifetime achievement for them. For me it was a Monday evening with the bois.
We won every but one single encounter that evening(which I guess ended in a tie? I had people respawn preemptively but the clean up was done before the respawners came in), so at which point exactly should I have found myself "outgunned?" "Germans can't attack"? - even though I was on the offense the whole game through? You were talking lots of "impossibles" here before, none of that stood up to the test. Maybe you want some pointers from me so you can finally stop moaning about your lack of success?

Matter of fact is that the kar98's rof is inferior to the m1 garand.

Neither Kar98k nor Garand are the sole component of their respective army's outfit, why are talking yourself into thinking they are?
IF that was the only difference then I'd agree with your criticism but you're very conveniently not mentioning the fact that the German Machine Guns run circles around the US ones' all day long. The StG44 has no equal on the WW2 battlefield either. This is not up for debate, you can literally look into the code files and see a big, fat 50 in the mag size of the MG34 followed with a nice, juicy ROF of 900 as well. The BAR looks like a pitiful relic of the past next to that(which it actually was at that point in time). The teams by and large are equal in strength, what isn't the same is their methodology.

[dcm]

I know that ww2 is your baby. But not everybody plays nor thinks like the developers do. I am fully aware of the german team's superior machine guns. But those are relatively rare. Only 1/8 squad members will have access to such automatic firepower. Best case scenario 3/8. If the squad manages to get a proper machine gunner kit, and if the squad leader doesn't choose the superior g43, which I see more and more of them doing. Even the american squad leaders are beginning to prefer the garand now. The BAR while being outdated more than has its shortcomings made up for by the firepower of the garand. I've seen entire americans squads, except the AR and LAT outfitted with the garand; lay down punitive and exceptionally effective suppressing fire on german positions. I had such an incident on Carenten where my american squad pinned down the manor with our garands, while the BAR guy moved up to clear rooms. The germans do not have such a luxury. In fact the opposite is true. If it was the germans doing such an assault, then only the automatic rifleman would stay back to provide suppressive fire and probably the squad leader would move in to clear rooms. That is of course if the squad leader had an smg, and if the automatic rifleman did his job and had a machine gun. Instead of getting the stg44 which most of them do select. The kar98k is a poor, poor choice for room clearing. The m1 garand and g43 are much better options.

Would it be possible to remove the MP40 and STG.44 from the german automatic rifleman and give them to someone else in a non squad leading role, who can put them to better use? The americans dont seem to have this problem of AR's choosing the grease gun over the BAR, when applicable.

[dcm]

Garand was nerfed by being 2-shot kill for a while but apparently that was bad too.

It was a dumb idea. Made the garand horrible to use.

[MOSES!!]

the kar 98 is good for med to long range while the garand is for med and short theres alot of factors to win an engagement just depends on how the player uses the weapon and what type of terrain they playing on whatever its carentan, omahah, merville, kassel or reich fighting in fields or buildings both sides weapons will have its advantages and disadvantages in game.

[Mdx00]

Playing as the germans just aint fun on most ww2 maps. They are completely outgunned by the m1 garand's semi auto firepower. Everybody who can use the garand does. Even officers too. The kar98k's bolt action nature makes it a pain to use. Not only that it has less than half the ammo of the garand. So what if the m1 cant reload a partial clip. It has so much ammo you dont really care. And people dont really use it as a rifle. I find greater success running into a group of enemies and mag dumping. Most of the time. I will win. Even against german machine guns.

Speaking of which; German machine guns fire too fast and have too little ammo firing time to be effective compared to their american counterparts. 99% of the time I barely see anyone on the german team run a proper mg if they dont have to. Most of the time its either stg.44 or mp40. The semi auto of the mg34 turns it into an iron sight dmr. Which can be useful in the right situation. But those situations are far too few. The mg42 is good yes, but it's very hard to get effective bursts out of that thing in the squad machine gun role. The mg3 doesn't seem to have that problem. I dont know if fires slower or some other magic but it's better. Way better even if it's iron sight only. The mounted mg42 is a different story. However it has it's own shortcomings.

The best weapon on the german team is the g43 and I've only seem the smart squad leaders use it. Even over the stg.44. The g43 is nothing special other than being a hard hitting semi auto rifle.

The problems also extend to vehicles. The american half track has a .50 cal, A .50 cal that destroy most other vehicles. The german half track has the mg42 which is only good against infantry. And if you come up against an american half track if doesn't matter if you shoot the gunner off, you cant destroy it anyway. Giving the rear gunner an mg42 doesn't alleviate much.

So what can be done? Other than giving every german soldier the g43 which is not authentic in the slightest. And without nerfing the us team again.

Well first increase the amount of automatic firepower on the german team in some way. Somebody else on that team needs a spawnable smg. Somebody other than pointman, because he's pretty much the best class on both teams.

Two. The Kar98k needs more ammo. Possibly double. And since germans are pretty much screwed by their bolt actions. Give their machine guns; MG34, MG42, and FG42, more ammo. Like you did with the russian's RPK74M. And give the G43 more ammo aswell. 6 mags aint shit. I go through that much ammo assaulting a position or providing covering fire.

Point 3. There's not much that can be done about the inbalance in half tracks. I admit that. But maybe have it so that their can be more things done to enemy half tracks by regular infantry. For example have grenade that explode inside the half track do much more damage. I've encountered too many situations where I dropped both my frags into an enemy half track and it did fuck all.

I'm not gonna get into tanks or apcs because I'm primarily an infantry player and at most I do mad gunruns aka drivebys with the apcs.

You just have to find a good strategy to play as a german, that's a totally different playstile

[Grump/Gump.45]

You just have to find a good strategy to play as a german, that's a totally different playstile

I will explain how to adapt to people and they just don't. I will try to convince them that taking all the tanks out together in view of each other to immediately save each other, distract for each other increases security, firepower and enemy takes longer to kill all of you. The tanks + APC + IFV + Anti-air vehicles+ logi repairs.

If CAS is trying to take out your tanks, then use tanks as bait for anti-air to take out CAS.

This is more common sense than how to change unit tactics for the weapons but people don't even do this invincible asset formation when given strong reasons to.

[chupachupp]

I wonder if the idea of allowing two MG's per squad in the Wehrmacht it's worth trying.

[Grump/Gump.45]

I wonder if the idea of allowing two MG's per squad in the Wehrmacht it's worth trying.

The MG 34 and MG42 kits plus 2 HMGs for the super FOBs. Players don't use everything that is available to them. Then when they do have it, they don't use it the most effective way possible.

Too much Call of Duty minded programming on players waiting to see something to shoot it, hit up all camouflage and areas enemy could move behind till you see anything suspect.

They never learned real tactics, and while never trying out the real tactics they seem to object to firing randomly for giving off their location. When the obvious thing is to move or allow yourself as bait for some friendly in view of you with tank shell spread to also be equal bait.

That is 3 MG42 possible plus MG34. You can get 4 HMG emplacements 200 meters from each other. so 6 possible.

[Doqquz]

gameplaywise yea it does

[dcm]

gameplaywise yea it does

I just played ww2 last night for the first time in over a year(not by choice). And it's still bad. I cant tolerate it. I was on the US team on omaha and even though we won. I felt so bad for the other team. Because they had no chance. Literally no chance. Even when you subtract the inherit vehicle advantage on omaha for the US. The US infantry is far superior. There was a point in time when both our tanks were out of service and it devolved into inf v inf. The superiority of US infantry really shined through. The only time we ever had a problem dealing with german inf was this crazy *** motherfucker running an mg42 as cqb weapon in the trenches. Same thing I would do tbh. And there was a guy who knew how to use the stg.44 perfectly too, to fuck our shit up. The german team really needs to be reassessed. They're far too weak.

[VTRaptor]

I just played ww2 last night for the first time in over a year(not by choice). And it's still bad. I cant tolerate it. I was on the US team on omaha and even though we won. I felt so bad for the other team. Because they had no chance. Literally no chance. Even when you subtract the inherit vehicle advantage on omaha for the US. The US infantry is far superior. There was a point in time when both our tanks were out of service and it devolved into inf v inf. The superiority of US infantry really shined through. The only time we ever had a problem dealing with german inf was this crazy *** motherfucker running an mg42 as cqb weapon in the trenches. Same thing I would do tbh. And there was a guy who knew how to use the stg.44 perfectly too, to fuck our shit up. The german team really needs to be reassessed. They're far too weak.

Usually my squad has
- G43 for SL
- G43 for specialist
- MG34 for AR
- MG42 for MG
all weapons above are better than US weapons in their classes

AT weapons situational, depending on map and layout, but germans have grenadier who has AT grenades, while US don't. HAT is also stronger.
Complains about K98 are really just skill issue, you people try to play bolt action weapons like they were assault carbines and then fail and complain.

On certain layouts and maps like carentan and omaha lrg (para version) US get M1 carbine on most of their kits, which is dogshit compared to K98. We already had garand having to hit twice to kill which effectively made it inferior to K98.

[dcm]

Usually my squad has
- G43 for SL
- G43 for specialist
- MG34 for AR
- MG42 for MG
all weapons above are better than US weapons in their classes

AT weapons situational, depending on map and layout, but germans have grenadier who has AT grenades, while US don't. HAT is also stronger.
Complains about K98 are really just skill issue, you people try to play bolt action weapons like they were assault carbines and then fail and complain.

On certain layouts and maps like carentan and omaha lrg (para version) US get M1 carbine on most of their kits, which is dogshit compared to K98. We already had garand having to hit twice to kill which effectively made it inferior to K98.

Most of the time I run my german squads same way as you if possible. But you'd be very lucky to get an MG42 at all. I badly need somebody else with a full auto weapon. I as the officer aint gonna give up my g43 because it rvials the garand, and I wont dont allow for my AR to use the stg.44 or mp40. Because a machine gun is sorely needed for german squads. There needs to be somebody on the german team with another full auto. Someone that isn't the officer or AR. Ideally the german AR should get the MG42 instead of the MG34 on applicable maps. And the pointman on both teams should get an SMG for his alternative kit. Finally the G43 should have atleast 8 possibly 10 magazines in reserve to match the garand, I cant tell you how many times I ran out of G43 ammo. 7 mags is good enough for a fire fight and a half, tops.

I have no problem with bolt actions. In modern day PR. I prefer using the bolt actions when given the choice. Such as tali rifleman alt or insurgent rifleman alt. I cant stand using bolt actions when they feel like a nerf to the overall kit, like alt combat engy for some teams.

I'm not saying to nerf the garand. That's a fucking cop out. The m1 carbine is a piece of shit. I despise using it. I gotta babysit US lat because he aint winning no fire fights. I'd only accept using the m1 carbine if it was better balanced such as more ammo or more consistent damage. Or if there was some overall benefit to the kit for using the current version of the m1 carbine. Like say if the US medic got an m1 carbine and got 4 smokes instead of 2. Or if the LAT/Engy had an m1 garand version of the kit but retained the m1 carbine as an alternative version with more/better explosives as trade off. Personally I'd like for the m1 carbine to made better overall. So it doesn't feel like a punishment to use.

[Chuva_RD]

With one tracker file from a balanced round of Reichswald and half a hour of time you could estimate chances of players with m1 carbine to kill players with kar98, g43, or MG34/42 simply by checking what kit the killer and killed had. And if the data - not your opinion - would show that taking m1 carbine results in significantly lesser than 50/50 chances to kill versus even kar98 then it would be reasonable to think how to compensate for worse weapon.

[Coalz101]

Didn't K98 (bolt actions in general) get a reload buff in one of the 1.7 updates?

[VTRaptor]

Didn't K98 (bolt actions in general) get a reload buff in one of the 1.7 updates?

Yeah, not only that but now you are sighted in after every shot so it's even faster.

@dcm Giving german AR MG42 and passing MG34 to MG kit is actually a good idea. German squads rely more on these weapons so that would be a nice buff, as yes - requesting kits in the field is sometimes impossible, as ww2 logistics are different without helicopters and crates are more rare.
Then IMO SMGs are worthless, I'd take K98/M1 Carbine over MP40/Thompson, so I don't feel like MP40 would be an improvement over K98 in PR. Though SMGs if to be proliferated should go into grenadier kit like they did in ww2:beta. This would make sense and wouldn't make these weapons too common, as was DEVs intention AFAIK.

[dcm]

Yeah, not only that but now you are sighted in after every shot so it's even faster.

@dcm Giving german AR MG42 and passing MG34 to MG kit is actually a good idea. German squads rely more on these weapons so that would be a nice buff, as yes - requesting kits in the field is sometimes impossible, as ww2 logistics are different without helicopters and crates are more rare.
Then IMO SMGs are worthless, I'd take K98/M1 Carbine over MP40/Thompson, so I don't feel like MP40 would be an improvement over K98 in PR. Though SMGs if to be proliferated should go into grenadier kit like they did in ww2:beta. This would make sense and wouldn't make these weapons too common, as was DEVs intention AFAIK.

I thought maybe giving ww2 factions an extra AR kit per squad might work. But that would actually tip things in the germans favor way too much. Fighting against a german squad with both an MG34 and MG42 is nearly impossible. The last good round as german I had on omaha, everybody in my squad had something automatic. Save for the medics.

SMGs aren't worthless. I do good work with them when given the chance. I've gained a new appreciation for the mp40/grease gun last night. I still think the m1 carbine needs to be made more 'consistent' overall. Because it's a piece of shit. US paratrooper layers where you are forced to use it; absolutely fucking suck. There were times where I know I should not have survived and did.

I still think that the WW2 alt AR needs to have his SMG removed and have it allocated to the pointman instead. If they wanna balance it, then strip the pointman of one of his frag grenades when rocking an SMG. Giving and SMG to the grenadier wouldn't work. NVA grenadier is too damn spammy in cqb. Or maybe introduce a new kit; Assault Trooper: A kit exclusively for WW2 factions. Simply take the current alt AR and make it it's own kit.

[Grump/Gump.45]

Move in, move out. Apply flexibility to what the Germans do in this video based on many scenarios. Lets say in Project Reality this is your single squad, against anything from 2 Grumps in a hole to 50 players. Going to be a lot of falling back, that is part of what I mean by flexibility. Then you actually have more than the Germans have here. How long will the half track last? I like to shoot without the enemy position in view and shoot through it, WW2 maps are mostly flat.

Turning a strong intended attack into hit and run to survive, problem is I call for fall back and some keep fighting, leaving them isolated to get killed without the other guys for pressure of distraction. Forget about winning by killing like its not Call of Duty. Assume you will never see the enemies full body for the sight of any weapon, at most muzzle flash and propellant gas. Surviving is how you win, endurance.

In Ukraine when they push in like Call Of Duty it turns into a meat grinder, but Ukrainians are now "just working the enemy". Lots of suppression, containment on the enemy location, security to detect enemy supporting the position, that is how you find more enemy if they support each other along with starting probing fire engagements into areas you have no clue of, maybe they will think you saw them and fire back revealing themselves.

Control till final push of the position after a good rocket or sweeping burst. Apply this to German WW2 bolt action rifles and the few semi-autos supported by the machine gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDZMJXaADQI