Bleed Effect is Impairing and Detrimental to gameplay

[Frontliner]

Right off the bat, first correction is that Suchar did the change, but whatever.

I feel flattered you're trying to make this into a conversation about how I - allegedly - mishandled the interactions dcm in there, but the truth of the matter is that most Team Members don't actually want to participate in these... ahem, "discussions" with the appropriate amoung of sincerity anymore because honestly, what's the fucking point? I've written enough Wall O' Texts to know that.

So in short, if long doesn't work, you tell someone "no"; and you'd think that after you did it twice, that's enough, but no, it has to be a couple more times. And when he eventually does, it simply cannot happen without throwing a hissy fit and casting shade, which is quite rude(but we don't mention that because it's slightly inconvenient to Frontliner being the "bad" one in this conversation, do we, eh?).
I will stand by my word that this is a HORRIBLE idea to do when trying to persuade somebody else and told him why exactly that is - which you frankly didn't even understand. And you have the nerves to tell me how to talk to people? Please.

[VTRaptor]

Initially I hated this feature as it was so intense that when bleed started you were effectively turning blind which was super annoying and game became really unpleasant, so I took a break from PR because of it... Initially, because after some tweaks it got much better and now it certainly is an improvement over old effect that randomly pooped red jelly all over your screen.

[dcm]

Initially I hated this feature as it was so intense that when bleed started you were effectively turning blind which was super annoying and game became really unpleasant, so I took a break from PR because of it... Initially, because after some tweaks it got much better and now it certainly is an improvement over old effect that randomly pooped red jelly all over your screen.

No. It still fucking sucks. Even after consuming a patch. You're so hindered that you are doomed to die. There's little to no chance to fight back.

[VTRaptor]

Sounds like a skill issue to me.

[dcm]

Feels like someone is running cover for bad game design decisions.

[Suchar]

In most games the bleeding effect serves only one purpose: information, that is letting the player know he is being hit. In PR, it is also supposed to lower the player's effectiveness. It results in strenghtening the role of medics and forcing the player to think twice before risking being hit in a stupid way and promoting teamwork in general.

Players should be afraid of dying and of being hit. The bleeding effect indeed impairs players' performance as the title of the thread says and it is intended to serve the aforementioned purpose.

I totally disagree with your opinion that it is detrimental to gameplay. On the contrary, it shapes gameplay according to our intent which seems to be different from your expectations. That is unfortunate.

[Frontliner]

Feels like someone is running cover for bad game design decisions.

Stop degrading somebody else's opinion. I already said that your way of talking isn't persuading anyone, yet you continue like that's the way to treat somebody. In contrast however to yelling at me or Suchar to, presumeably, vent your frustration,(and who, to an extend, ought to handle headwind coming our way) we're not going to allow you to harass a community member. Behave or be quiet.

[Grump/Gump.45]

I was listening to somebody who was shot. They said their vision started fading to darkness from blood loss and loss of blood pressure. You get weak and feeling woozy.

I suspect due to compromised vascular system, even if not directly damaging arteries directly to the head, it reduces blood to the brain, optic nerves causing this vision. If directly affecting upper arteries closer to the head, this happens quicker. After certain amounts of blood loss, we have around 4 liters total. You are unconscious after 1.5 to 2.5 liters lost, sometimes less depending on shock and pain.

Blood loss is fast from pressure initially but once volume is lost so is pressure, the heart slows to cardiac arrest. Once unconscious you are in a coma from oxygen deprivation to the brain, it begins to shut down, deoxygenate and blood stagnates. This is your last 5 minutes as the screen fades to black.

Let me just say, when we die our spawn screen should fly above the battlefield, too high to help us though, I have heard many say this happened to them when they died, had out of body experience and came back. 2 examples of testimony in linked/attached video, many more I have forgotten.
AFTER LIFE testimony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1xK7LiyQMo&t=354s


Note I would like for the future Project Reality Virtual Reality to have fully realistic internal models and survival rates of wounds. Get points for evac them back to base even if nothing can be done for them. All the medical tools, bandage, tourniquets, compression bandage, chest seals, hemostatic clamps, defibrillators, IV bags. Different rates of survival in different eras from morphine vs ketamine for pain. Have medical supply chests for field. War Of Rights engine can run 300 or 400 players, they are now testing 500 players. This is the future.

To justify through basic medical knowledge, once you look at and understand all layers of a body diagram. Could do CPR, but it would just pump more blood out till wound cavity plugged or artery clamped. Then transfusion of plasma or blood only. To keep them alive now requires external equipment like IV tubes, oxygen, defibrillators to get heart going, there are many complications related to timing by the minutes of brain death and vascular constriction. I read they stopped using Saline drips due to the higher rate of survival of those who received plasma with blood vs saline.


https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01270854
"Plasmalyte A is a solution that more closely matches physiologic electrolyte levels."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5899644/
"Surgeons and anesthesiologists have long preferred buffered solutions such as Ringer’s Lactate and Plasma-Lyte A. Normal saline is the solution most widely employed in medical and pediatric care, as well as in hematology and transfusion medicine. However, there is growing concern that normal saline is more toxic than balanced, buffered crystalloids such as Plasma-Lyte and Lactated Ringer’s. Normal saline is the only solution recommended for red cell washing, administration and salvage in the USA, but Plasma-Lyte A is also FDA approved for these purposes."

[SemlerPDX]

In most games the bleeding effect serves only one purpose: information, that is letting the player know he is being hit. In PR, it is also supposed to lower the player's effectiveness. It results in strenghtening the role of medics and forcing the player to think twice before risking being hit in a stupid way and promoting teamwork in general.

Players should be afraid of dying and of being hit. The bleeding effect indeed impairs players' performance as the title of the thread says and it is intended to serve the aforementioned purpose.

I totally disagree with your opinion that it is detrimental to gameplay. On the contrary, it shapes gameplay according to our intent which seems to be different from your expectations. That is unfortunate.

I absolutely agree with Suchar here. Well stated! 100%

[saXoni]

Hello DCM,

Given the fact that there won't be a change in your favor, and you obviously seem to enjoy the game enough to keep sticking around, I have a proposition for you. We can also call it a challenge if that makes it more intriguing?

If you truly give this a try, and eventually make a habit of it, your average K/D should increase drastically given the amount of players running head first into fucking anything of interest, either because they do not care or because they don't know better. A higher K/D usually means less dying, which you should love given your stance on the current bleed effect:

Spend a week where your main objective - in every round of PR you play - is to be the longest survivor of the current gunfight. That doesn't mean you should not move forward, but at some point you will probably have to stop and consider the positioning of both you and the enemy. It can be pretty difficult, but if you apply a bit of patience and keep an eye on your map you might start to realize when/where it's nice to push and when/where it's wise to chill.

Also take note of the position you've stopped to ADS, there might be an alternative spot close enough it would be foolish not to use it. Don't push a corner if it's just as likely the enemy will push you, being fully settled and landing the first shot is key.
Speaking of landing your shots, how's your mouse sensitivity? I have mine as low as possible without jeopardizing CQB stuff.

Regarding your mouse wheel complaint I think you should stop using it entirely and memorize the number keys.

Eager to see the results. Obviously words cannot describe my disappointment if you were to not take up on this challenge.

Good luck!


Side note: I do not share your opinion, but have no issue with you voicing it. I think you should keep doing it, just like the others should keep voicing theirs.

[Grump/Gump.45]

Hello DCM,
If you truly give this a try, and eventually make a habit of it, your average K/D should increase drastically given the amount of players running head first into fucking anything of interest, either because they do not care or because they don't know better. Better K/D usually means less dying, which you should love given your stance on the current bleed effect:

Spend a week where your main objective - in every round of PR you play - is to be the longest survivor of the current gunfight. That doesn't mean you should not move forward, but at some point you will probably have to stop and consider the positioning of both you and the enemy. It can be pretty hard, but if you apply a bit of patience and keep an eye on your map you might start realizing when/where it's nice to push and when/where it's wise to chill.

Great lesson. The real problem is getting hit un-controllably in a bad situation, the stress of that added by the lack of visual clarity with no hope of it getting better. Staying alive when outgunned, but no hope to counter the type of attack but hold and hope for help.

Not only knowing when to chillax or take opportunities to push. Then the fact of dodging the aim of projectiles till you get to even the next smallest micro terrain to hide behind to survive simulated combat. But what about thrive within it? Lets get into creating the conditions for knowing when to push with the assets. Synchronization. Infantry and initial assets shows up, stay alive, hold terrain, let enemy make mistakes into you, the big action starts when rest of assets shows up at 20 minutes, then area attack at 30 minutes.

These events should be synced up to trigger the next event based on full capabilities. Mix together all doctrines, whether it be USA, WW2 German, WW2 Russians, Korean, Chinese, Native American Guerilla. Be flexible.

If assets are delayed, keep what you start with alive for 10, 15 or 20 minutes till rest of assets are up. Look at the asset list, add up total armed vehicles like IFV, APC, Tanks, Jeeps, anti-air vehicles, then add logistics for vehicle repairs like a medic, throw in the transport trucks too with a infantry machine gunner jumped on the back, roll it slowly. Target prioritization for enemy when you have every player and vehicle asset in view of each other logically goes.

1.) Tanks
2.) APC
3.) anti-air vehicles
4.) Jeeps
5.) logi trucks
6.) transport trucks

But all these vehicles in view of each other buys you seconds of say an enemy tank scanning, picking a target, being overwhelmed and stressed because the one target they pick is covered by another anti-tank capable asset. If they pick the wrong vehicle to shoot first they fired and gave their location. Making the trucks, jeeps and faster moving APC dust trails more visibly obvious, they don't notice your tanks right away. Careful logistics repairs doesn't give off location. Mix in other factors like static destroyed tanks to confuse the enemy further.

Hold terrain in view of objective. Use objective as baited target zone if its small or be within the edge if its big cap zone (150-300 meters). Use every tool available like foxholes, TOW, HMG, AA over the widest area possible within FOB limits.

METT-TC. Mission, Enemy, Terrain/Weather, Troops/support available, Time considerations, Civil considerations.

Without context, Mission is to accomplish the objective without loss of life, then finding the balance between risk and reward. Anytime somebody creates risk to themselves, 90% of all Project Reality deaths are projectiles like bullets, shells, missiles and grenades.

Part of this risk, under the "1 man per piece of cover formation, 1 man hit per tank shell spread in view of each other spread formation. 1 armor asset hit per CAS bomb/area attack spread formation". Follow the Omaha beach landing concept, one boat alone dies fast, 20 boats takes a while to kill.

Same for every other situation, 1 man peeks killed fast, can't shoot enough which only draws attention to him faster. But everyone peeking up at the same time, more chance of survival. Friendlies provide protection from shooting as well as getting shot at. Distracting the enemy.

If 2 teams do this it becomes a stalemate till one side is weak enough, to push is to initialize the events leading to your death. To sit and wait lets these events develop when they come into territory you know.

[Stolt_Yugoslav]

Stop degrading somebody else's opinion. I already said that your way of talking isn't persuading anyone, yet you continue like that's the way to treat somebody. In contrast however to yelling at me or Suchar to, presumeably, vent your frustration,(and who, to an extend, ought to handle headwind coming our way) we're not going to allow you to harass a community member. Behave or be quiet.

Where's the harassment, snowflake?

Again, the guy voiced his opinion.

No. It still fucking sucks. Even after consuming a patch. You're so hindered that you are doomed to die. There's little to no chance to fight back.

Then got told by Raptor that it's a

"Skill issue"

which is at least equally dismissive:

And you know what, both are fine to express their opinions.

So DCM counters with "nah, its cover for bad design" and now he's harassing someone.

Who is he even harassing, what Raptor? He hasn't even designed the game, who?



I wasn't telling you that you've mishandled the discussion earlier by the way, I was telling you that you're no different than DCM and that this is fine as well.
But that you think that you're high and mighty and you're not.

The whole point of the post was the last paragraph.

Your defense has always been that you have your vision, you work on this game and its as much as (or more) for you to play and thus design as it is for anyone else in the community. And so with that kind of attitude (which I have to admit, is at least partly justified), you are going to and have experienced this type of pushback.

Which you re-confirmed with your actual reply to me:

So in short, if long doesn't work, you tell someone "no"; and you'd think that after you did it twice, that's enough, but no, it has to be a couple more times.

And just to be clear, when I say you here at the end I'm not talking specifically about you personally but the whole team since at least a decade back.

Even Suchars sarcastic

"That's unfortunate"

remark in regards to possible differences in expectations is good enough to confirm this on its own.



So to re-iterate, you're not really here to engage with the community, you never have been. Except for a small tight circle around the dev team of people who know each other. This forum has always served as some sort of depository of ideas, but I can barely count a few times on my hand when any design choice, update of any sort or any major concept was ever discussed with the community BEFORE implementation or readily withdrawn after complaints or a poll rendered it inpopular. Even this effect was only made somewhat milder with a degree of bitterness after a near total outcry when it was first released. In my opinion it's kinda fine now too, but that's neither here nor there.


So you and someone like DCM are at opposite sides, not on this issue, but on the very basic issue. You expect him to fold because you're part of the dev team and you've told him "no" , whether in a good or bad way. He expects you to change your mind and change in accordance to his wishes, which is never going to happen. Not even if he was right, not even if everything he said made sense, because as it has been written before in some other topic by someone else "we're not gonna backtrack after weeks of work because a portion of the community doesn't like something" and "we code this game for us, and if you enjoy it, that's great, if not"...well let's just use Suchars words "that's unfortunate".


So, while Saxoni's sentiments normally would be the most reasonable and fair of all of ours:

"
Side note: I do not share your opinion, but have no issue with you voicing it. I think you should keep doing it, just like the others should keep voicing theirs."

As it stands now its probably the least helpful as it's as you've realised yourself a waste of time for you and DCM. Not because you won't listen to each other but because he can't implement your ideas and you won't implement his ideas as an outsider.



TL: DR; There's barely any point discussing any changes to PR because nobody in the dev team ever seeks the approval of the wider audience or community of the game and very rarely is anything major rolled back fully let alone voted about. One aspect where this is beyond evident is in regards to maps that are removed at your inclination. Something that no other development team I know of does where servers run on private hosts. An other example of tight control is the licensing system for the servers themselves. I know no other group or company that does this except MMORPG/Freemium game developers.

There is however a point in doing is suggesting new things and future ideas, those are heeded from time to time but only insofar as they fit into a mythical design vision that's never fully defined and is arbitrarily referenced when ever it fits the developers; The intended line between realism vs gameplay and other considerations being not only blurry but relative to the whims of who ever has authority to reference it.

[dcm]

Where's the harassment, snowflake?

So DCM counters with "nah, its cover for bad design" and now he's harassing someone.

Who is he even harassing, what Raptor? He hasn't even designed the game, who?

This mentality is why I avoid using websites like reddit. And most videogame forums in general because I cant stand the *** kissing that goes on. And the shit flinging from members of the community, towards other members of the community, in order to accrue some perceived 'in' with the staff. This obedience to authority; creates hostile and toxic environments, which disallow open and honest discussion of any and all issues.

P.S. To hell with all teachers, educators and especially college professors. They are the worst at abusing their power against a captive audience. They expect their students to agree with them 100% on all their bullshit. And go along with it, or risk a failing grade. Teachers are all narcissists and need a lesson in humility.

So you and someone like DCM are at opposite sides, not on this issue, but on the very basic issue. You expect him to fold because you're part of the dev team and you've told him "no" , whether in a good or bad way.

I dont respect undue authority.

He expects you to change your mind and change in accordance to his wishes, which is never going to happen.

Incorrect. I expect from creative types; to be able to separate themselves from their work, and look at it in an objective way.

Not even if he was right

I am right.

TL: DR; There's barely any point discussing any changes to PR because nobody in the dev team ever seeks the approval of the wider audience or community of the game and very rarely is anything major rolled back fully let alone voted about. One aspect where this is beyond evident is in regards to maps that are removed at your inclination. Something that no other development team I know of does where servers run on private hosts. An other example of tight control is the licensing system for the servers themselves. I know no other group or company that does this except MMORPG/Freemium game developers.

I fully respect a creative's vision for their work. However most creatives CAN NOT be trusted and given a blank check. Just look at squad for example. They were able to do most anything they wanted. And squad is inferior to PR. In all aspects but graphical. Limitation breeds creativity.

As much as I love PR. I cant in good conscience run a PR server under the r-devs terms. I want freedom. Not control.


@saxoni
Do you know why I play PR? Because I'm addicted to it. It is the last game that I can somewhat enjoy. Even for all it's bullshit and flaws(deviation, bleeding, kit limits, etc) it's still more fun than 99% of other games. Maybe because project reality is the last son of Battlefield 2, I have more forgiveness for it's shortcomings. But Forgotten Hope 2 also exists and I cant stand it. The gameplay of FH2 is inferior to PR in almost every single way.

[Frontliner]

Where's the harassment, snowflake?

Again, the guy voiced his opinion.

It was not "just his opinion". And it was getting pretty clear to me that he needed a reminder that although he can, to an extend, get cheeky with me, we're not going to allow him the attitude he displayed there towards somebody entirely unrelated. Since you're having issues actually grasping what's happening here as you can't even seem to follow a simple chain of replies, and what the differences are between "voicing his opinion" and "voicing his opinion and then doing things we don't want to see here", I'll lay it out bare:

"I disagree" - This is fine.

"Shut up, you're wrong, you're just a fanboy running cover". - This is not fine; as I said, it's degrading, putting another person down to being a mere lapdop. This is foremost an insult, just dressed up.

My friendly reminder also serves/served(?) to not trigger actions from the Forum Moderation. Before either or both parties think they can get away with further snide remarks towards one another(and trust me, I saw VT's "Skill issue" reply*) only to be reprimanded with a timeout, I am very well within my capacity here to point out that that's not something we'll allow and for them to cool down. This was a mere preventative measure.
Does that make me a snowflake? Hardly. You, too, signed up whilst checking that "I have understood the forum rules and will abide by them"- checkbox. If you think that common decency and respect towards another is for snowflakes and only-child princesses, you're mistaken so far as this forum is concerned.

Oh, and, inb4 you're trying to "gotcha!" me:
I know that I have a penchant to argue my points, and quite thoroughly, but I'm also not one to run towards the Moderation to help and shield me when things get heated and somebody steps over the line, further than DCM here. I know that when I dish things out, things come in in return, that's only fair, imo. Neither side gets struck with timeouts/bans - or at the very least, they happened seldomly - and we'll cool down eventually.
But that's me v. somebody else. I'm expected to not interject with hurt fee-fee's at the slightest opportunity. The moment a 3rd party is concerned, the dynamics and standards change however, as evident by my intervention.

With regards to the "snowflake" remark: I know you're trying to get an overreaction out of me with that, but mate, I'm not English/US American, I don't give a fuck if I'm being called that In fact, all that does is getting a laugh out of me because it's either a) a pathetic attempt at insulting me or b) an attempt at insulting which for you despite it only being there in order to insult somehow stays within the boundaries of the forum rules.
With that being said, trying to tiptoe the line is not something that's advisable. Again, I can only point out that we're more likely to respond towards you in a positive way if the interaction starts with a positive first encounter from your end. Since you feel like we've been dismissive maybe it'd be more constructive if it wasn't for

your first showing up commenting being designed to "tear me down"(probably phrased incorrectly, but I hope you get the gist of the meaning), and
your second showing up opening up with an insult in the first sentence, however veiled or not.

To repeat myself. You have the nerve to tell me how to talk to people?


One last thing:

So to re-iterate, you're not really here to engage with the community, you never have been.

You say this while my post counter reads
one thousand
eight hundred
and sixty
compared to the 81 you've mustered within a longer active period.
But it doesn't stop there: The past few years many discussions were being held on Discord, during my (3-4-year long) stay I was by far the team member with the most interactions towards the community, answering questions, giving tips, helping with various non-technical issues etc..

Need more convincing? Go to https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showth ... p?t=151645 (and yes, that's both DCM and me talking to each other without any issues. Funny how that goes, eh?)

I did some testing, both online and off. I've come to the conclusion that the M1 carbine has about .2° more than the garand. The carbine has a recoil of about 4.1°. In comparison, the garand's recoil is about 3.9°. The 1911 is at about 4.5­­­°. Which is understandable because it's a pistol. But why give the carbine more recoil than the garand? It's already the weakest primary non-submachine gun in the game(Except for the vz.61, that's a machine pistol).

It currently uses the G3's preset because somebody erroneously thought that the 7.62cm diameter caliber it fires is 7.62x51mm NATO. I took the liberty of fixing it sometime yesterday evening. It will use the preset of the AKM-74M UGL with the next patch, cutting its recoil down to below half of current.

This "accusation" of yours is simply outrageous. Most of my replies aren't even one- or twoliners with very little substance but often enough multiple paragraphs long easily. Most PR players know this(also due to the size of the community), so I can only assume that you're either totally unaware of my existence in this community(quite the feat), or you're demonstrably lying to discredit me(quite malicious).
Which one are you, then. The Blind and Deaf One? Or the Liar?

Edit:
Forgot the *
While rude, VT's remark is not something I would say an adult should feel overly attacked by. Every player dishes out the "You're bad at the game" towards another, just prove him wrong and/or don't care.
Yet if for some reason you do care enough, the better choice would've been to not shoot back but to report to the Forum Moderation and let them take appropriate action. Can't expect more than a slight wrist slapping though, all things considered.

[Stolt_Yugoslav]

I...

...To repeat myself. You have the nerve to tell me how to talk to people?

Yes. Its hilarious that you seem to think it's perfectly normal for you to tell people how to talk to people but because my name isn't colored in an alternative color I don't? I'll leave the rest as it's getting a bit ugly as you said and my intention was again to show to you that you're just as human as DCM and not that you're the worst person ever. But this isn't really getting through and it was the least important part of the post.

One last thing:


You say this while my post counter reads
one thousand
eight hundred
and sixty
compared to the 81 you've mustered within a longer active period.
But it doesn't stop there: The past few years many discussions were being held on Discord, during my (3-4-year long) stay I was by far the team member with the most interactions towards the community, answering questions, giving tips, helping with various non-technical issues etc..

Need more convincing? Go to https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showth ... p?t=151645 (and yes, that's both DCM and me talking to each other without any issues. Funny how that goes, eh?)

I know you've engaged with him when the rest of the team has insulated themselves even further. That's just positive and DCM seems to have a huge ego so I can understand that it gets annoying. But let me ask you; out of those 1860 engagements;

HOW MANY HAVE LED TO YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL OR AS PART OF THE TEAM TO PUSH TO MAKE ANY MAJOR CHANGES AS PER SUGGESTION? ...from who ever you were engaging with in a discussion? - Especially in regards to reversing something?
edit: and no, I'm not talking in the context of fixing bugs.

- I know the answer, you should too if you're honest with yourself at least. And this is probably why you'll again ignore this part.

And you're just a contributor, I know. But like, in some way it's even worse with the devs, especially as time has gone on.

And you know what, I'm not gonna even say it's overall bad man, I mean its a good game you know. I'm just saying in the context of feeling validated there is basically no hope for DCM. And he doesn't quite realize that and keeps banging on a door that's locked, feeling increasingly frustrated with each bang.

Now the fact that the door is locked with a level 999 magic forcefield, incapable of being penetrated by mere mortals, more so than even for some ultra-capitalist, mega corporation like EA Games or Ubisoft, well that's kinda messed up. But you as the team do you. It's not been too bad for the game, it's just means you get situations like these. Most people have given up trying. The big debates happened years ago. Others, well they joined the team

This "accusation" of yours is simply outrageous. Most of my replies aren't even one- or twoliners with very little substance but often enough multiple paragraphs long easily. Most PR players know this(also due to the size of the community), so I can only assume that you're either totally unaware of my existence in this community(quite the feat), or you're demonstrably lying to discredit me(quite malicious).
Which one are you, then. The Blind and Deaf One? Or the Liar?

I've already told you, it's not about you its about the whole team, and you again don't address the substance of the post, only the peripheries. I'd rather take insults than this skidding around the issue.

[Stolt_Yugoslav]

This mentality is why I avoid using websites like reddit. And most videogame forums in general because I cant stand the *** kissing that goes on. And the shit flinging from members of the community, towards other members of the community, in order to accrue some perceived 'in' with the staff. This obedience to authority; creates hostile and toxic environments, which disallow open and honest discussion of any and all issues.

P.S. To hell with all teachers, educators and especially college professors. They are the worst at abusing their power against a captive audience. They expect their students to agree with them 100% on all their bullshit. And go along with it, or risk a failing grade. Teachers are all narcissists and need a lesson in humility.


I dont respect undue authority.


Incorrect. I expect from creative types; to be able to separate themselves from their work, and look at it in an objective way.


I am right.



I fully respect a creative's vision for their work. However most creatives CAN NOT be trusted and given a blank check. Just look at squad for example. They were able to do most anything they wanted. And squad is inferior to PR. In all aspects but graphical. Limitation breeds creativity.

As much as I love PR. I cant in good conscience run a PR server under the r-devs terms. I want freedom. Not control.


@saxoni
Do you know why I play PR? Because I'm addicted to it. It is the last game that I can somewhat enjoy. Even for all it's bullshit and flaws(deviation, bleeding, kit limits, etc) it's still more fun than 99% of other games. Maybe because project reality is the last son of Battlefield 2, I have more forgiveness for it's shortcomings. But Forgotten Hope 2 also exists and I cant stand it. The gameplay of FH2 is inferior to PR in almost every single way.

On principle i agree and I'm a little bit like this. (Though I think I was more lucky with my professors...) But you have to understand that these folks, some of them have worked on this project for over a decade man, they are tight you know.

It's my opinion that they are making an enjoyable experience more and more tedious in a quest for perfection, though I would draw the line much further out than you would and so you see, there are various opinions to cater to. They have, more so than almost any team I know of, chosen to run this thing very much in-house. They don't really post roadmaps or engage in the way you'd want them to.

Saying "I'm right" is just objectively fucked up. I mean maybe you're objectively right from the perspective of mass appeal, but clearly at least a few people appreciated the even harsher bleed mechanic as it was when it first got introduced. And they did so because they want that experience of helplessness.

It's not a skill issue as Raptor says, the guy doesn't fucking get it and maybe he's kissing some *** as you say. Maybe he's more skilled or has different binds so he handles it slightly better than you but that's beyond the point. The change is about increasing that feeling and thus reliance on your team mates for help and cover. The whole idea is that skill isn't supposed to save you/it's supposed to be negated at that point.

And in Suchar's case he really wants to go far with it.


But I'm not really here to discuss your idea, I'm just gonna tell you that you probably should just stop posting, and I dont know why Im even engaging any of you. I guess sharing ones experiences after a decade or more of playing this game is just, well, human.

And my experience is that it's generally a waste of time to discuss already implemented changes here (with an intention to seriously change them). Especially now that the forum is basically dead.

[Frontliner]

Yes. Its hilarious that you seem to think it's perfectly normal for you to tell people how to talk to people but because my name isn't colored in an alternative color I don't?

It's completely within my authority to point out when somebody is crossing the line towards somebody else. The hilarity is that you think that I do not, when in actuality, I would go as far and say that anyone can point out how one is stepping over the line. The difference is that what I said served its purpose without needing active Moderator intervention afterwards; had somebody else done that, I would imagine Nate, FFG or Mineral saying "yes, that's correct, cool off." - which they have done on numerous occasions in the past(sometimes without prompt), yet haven't elected to do then. Ain't that a fucking curiousity, eh?

This being your third post on the topic now, what you have said is predominantly that you're taking offense with the fact that I spoke up as a preventative measure. It's not about having A FUCKING POINT, no, now it's about that I do not have the legitemacy of doing such a thing via insinuating that "you just have a differently coloured name" and therefore "you're no better than everybody else".
Let me drop you a fucking truth bomb: You can cry how team members supposedly have elevated rights all you want, unless I was abusive - which I'm not, I don't even have access to the tools for that - this is all in your head.

And again, a person who opens up by calling someone "snowflake" is trying to demonstrate to me how to articulate oneself in superior fashion. But you conveniently skipped over that under the pretext of "limited relevancy"

I know you've engaged with him when the rest of the team has insulated themselves even further. That's just positive and DCM seems to have a huge ego so I can understand that it gets annoying.

No, you're not getting off that easy.

You have been quoted as "So to re-iterate, you're not really here to engage with the community, you never have been.", and I will tear you a new one right here and now:

Do not kid yourself into thinking I don't see you doing a 180. You are COMPLETELY GOING BACK on what you originally said and meant in order to save the accusations you've made. Now you're painting me as the only one doing anything worthwhile when it comes to discussions with the community(which proves you wrong since at least one team member, namely myself, is interacting with it) is demonstrably false. Numerous members had and have been speaking their minds freely on just about every minor and major change this game has done, period. In a long list of ever-thinner veiled disgust for the team as a whole, you're reaching points in which you're all your doing is making shit up in order to discredit my peers(and me by extension). This is not up for discussion whatsoever; it's not a randomly tossed out Kindergarten-level insult you're doing right now, you doing a calculated move to try and damage people's reputation. You will cease this immediately or I will be more than happy to play advocate against you should we ever go so far as to make your stay on the forums a discussion topic on Discord. That's a promise.

Now, hold on, because I am not done yet. Due to the nature of internet culture and people not actually admitting to fault, for once I am stepping over my authority because I am sick of people making bullshit claims at every opportunity and thinking they can get away with their made-up BS because "it's just my opinion, bro". You know what you said was a lie, I am not going to budge an inch on this matter:
You WILL reply that you have both received and understood what I just said.
You WILL reply that you're sorry.
You WILL reply that you will make no further attempts at lying.

I don't care what else with respect to this reply you want to respond to, and how, but I will read affirmations on this, and three of those in total, are we clear?

But let me ask you; out of those 1860 engagements;

HOW MANY HAVE LED TO YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL OR AS PART OF THE TEAM TO PUSH TO MAKE ANY MAJOR CHANGES AS PER SUGGESTION? ...from who ever you were engaging with in a discussion? - Especially in regards to reversing something?
edit: and no, I'm not talking in the context of fixing bugs.

From the posts made on the forums, a few. Because the team has, for the most part, centered around Discord for discussions. As a whole, if I had to guess, around a dozen to two dozen or so? It's hard to quantify the contributions I made, some changes are literally just a few lines in text editor and took a grant total of 5 minutes. Is that "1" contribution?
Also, with respect to forum posts, when I joined as QA at the end of 2017, the game was in a well enough spot; most of the things that irked me have been adressed in one way or another since I became a regular in 1.0; eg. 1.3's tweak of the armour balance. And although some things still irk me, there are others who do not think need further tweaking. I have no overriding authority so we agree to disagree.

[Also, just to point this out - regardless of the wild accusations thrown at us, I am still more than happy to reply towards an honest question with the befitting sincerity. This is not at all what one would do if he was as stuck up as you pretend every team member is.]

- I know the answer, you should too if you're honest with yourself at least. And this is probably why you'll again ignore this part.

I know the question with regards to how effective I was in shaping this game is another of those cases in which you're trying really fucking hard to "gotcha" me; but it remeains fact that you're talking royally out your fucking arse right now. One more reason why I insist on getting my replies as laid out above.
Seeing the bait, I pondered about whether or not you should be given an answer given your obnoxious know-it-all attitude and/or "I already know the answer"-presupposition, but then again, this is an open forum, and some people might be genuinely interested to know - even if you're just taking a piss at me - and I just answered to the best of my abilities.

If this is not all what you're expecting, I guess the only thing I can then do is to stop and not interact. Which I won't. That's also a promise.

I've already told you, it's not about you its about the whole team, and you again don't address the substance of the post, only the peripheries. I'd rather take insults than this skidding around the issue.

Well, even if I read you wrong, I still am a team member, for one thing, so you're talking BS right then and there already, even if we were to pretend like you have a point. But we both know that you're still demonstrably false, and by virtue of pretending like nobody else but me is engaging with the community, malicious in intent because of it.

Also, I gotta point this out at the end because nowhere else is this clearer here: You singled me out as having an issue with my communications towards the community, yet at the same time, when I showed this to be nonsense in my reply, in your "clarifications" in this reply right here, you have TWICE mentioned to take issue with the communication of everybody else on the team but me.

Like, what the actual fuck is your problem?

[VTRaptor]

It's not a skill issue as Raptor says, the guy doesn't fucking get it and maybe he's kissing some *** as you say. Maybe he's more skilled or has different binds so he handles it slightly better than you but that's beyond the point.

Wdym I don't get it? Current bleed is simply put less obstructive and in practice fighting on is easier, but for some reason not for dcm, who has to use some weird binds for whatever reason. I stand by the skill issue argument, because this community is small enough for me to know all the skilled players, most of them in person. This is an example of bad workman blaming his tools. Would he improve if deviation was removed as he'd like? He even calls kit limitations "bullshit and flaws" here... If DEVs even considered these as such, I'd be worried.

And ask Suchar who is a DEV if I am kissing his ***.

and I'm done reading these walls of texts, even comming from the frontliner at this point xD

[saXoni]

Do you know why I play PR? Because I'm addicted to it. It is the last game that I can somewhat enjoy. Even for all it's bullshit and flaws(deviation, bleeding, kit limits, etc) it's still more fun than 99% of other games. Maybe because project reality is the last son of Battlefield 2, I have more forgiveness for it's shortcomings. But Forgotten Hope 2 also exists and I cant stand it. The gameplay of FH2 is inferior to PR in almost every single way.

I was never very fond of FH2 either, at least not enough for me to get hooked. If you're addicted you might as well try to make the best out of it don't you think? I dunno - it's there if you're interested and want to try it out, if you're not then that's completely fine too.

As it stands now its probably the least helpful as it's as you've realised yourself a waste of time for you and DCM. Not because you won't listen to each other but because he can't implement your ideas and you won't implement his ideas as an outsider.

I have given a PR player a general tip suitable for this situation as it is likely to reduce the amount of times he is reminded of the awful bleed effect. I would not consider that a waste of time for either of us.

Why should he not be able to implement these ideas? And why wouldn't I implement an idea of his if I found it reasonable?

[Stolt_Yugoslav]

It's completely within my authority to point out when somebody is crossing the line towards somebody else. The hilarity is that you think that I do not, when in actuality, I would go as far and say that anyone can point out how one is stepping over the line. The difference is that what I said served its purpose without needing active Moderator intervention afterwards; had somebody else done that, I would imagine Nate, FFG or Mineral saying "yes, that's correct, cool off." - which they have done on numerous occasions in the past(sometimes without prompt), yet haven't elected to do then. Ain't that a fucking curiousity, eh?

This being your third post on the topic now, what you have said is predominantly that you're taking offense with the fact that I spoke up as a preventative measure. It's not about having A FUCKING POINT, no, now it's about that I do not have the legitemacy of doing such a thing via insinuating that "you just have a differently coloured name" and therefore "you're no better than everybody else".
Let me drop you a fucking truth bomb: You can cry how team members supposedly have elevated rights all you want, unless I was abusive - which I'm not, I don't even have access to the tools for that - this is all in your head.

No, you're not getting off that easy.

You're so high on your own fumes. I'm not crying about anything, you're the one bitching and crying about his behaviour. I tried to bridge a gap between you two so you realize you're both human and that the origin of your dispute lay precisely in perceived notions of authority, dedication to cause and systemic issues (i.e. how things are done around here). I.e. you have power, he doesn't he reacts with frustration while you react with dismisiveness. But Im done building that bridge which you clearly never would have wanted to cross anyway.

And again, a person who opens up by calling someone "snowflake" is trying to demonstrate to me how to articulate oneself in superior fashion. But you conveniently skipped over that under the pretext of "limited relevancy"

You are a snowflake, what am I trying to escape from?

You have been quoted as "So to re-iterate, you're not really here to engage with the community, you never have been.", and I will tear you a new one right here and now

Let me add: Meaningfully engage. And not you personally. You seem incapable of processing this fact. Just before that I said this:

And just to be clear, when I say you here at the end I'm not talking specifically about you personally but the whole team since at least a decade back.

And just after that sentence I said this:

Except for a small tight circle around the dev team of people who know each other. This forum has always served as some sort of depository of ideas, but I can barely count a few times on my hand when any design choice, update of any sort or any major concept was ever discussed with the community BEFORE implementation or readily withdrawn after complaints or a poll rendered it inpopular.

Meaning I'm talking about the way things are done here in general. And that builds frustration in someone like DCM.

Do not kid yourself into thinking I don't see you doing a 180. You are COMPLETELY GOING BACK on what you originally said and meant in order to save the accusations you've made. Now you're painting me as the only one doing anything worthwhile when it comes to discussions with the community(which proves you wrong since at least one team member, namely myself, is interacting with it) is demonstrably false. Numerous members had and have been speaking their minds freely on just about every minor and major change this game has done, period. In a long list of ever-thinner veiled disgust for the team as a whole, you're reaching points in which you're all your doing is making shit up in order to discredit my peers(and me by extension). This is not up for discussion whatsoever; it's not a randomly tossed out Kindergarten-level insult you're doing right now, you doing a calculated move to try and damage people's reputation. You will cease this immediately or I will be more than happy to play advocate against you should we ever go so far as to make your stay on the forums a discussion topic on Discord. That's a promise.

Stop threatening me like some Internet - Hitler. I'll stay within the frames of what I think is good taste. I'll also call a spade a spade and a snowflake a snowflake.If you think it falls outside of your rules and you as a snowflake feel so abused or harassed by it then you are free to remove this 12+ year community member that you've never listened to anyway. But its interesting to note how much such a simple word triggers you to what is essentially a tirade of abusive language and threats. Below the surface of most virtue-signallers there is seemingly a dark truth looming. As I told someone else, elsewhere; Perhaps that is why you require such stringent societal rules whether you're on twitter or here or anywhere else. Perhaps without them you'd go far further than anyone like me or DCM ever would.

Now, hold on, because I am not done yet. Due to the nature of internet culture and people not actually admitting to fault, for once I am stepping over my authority because I am sick of people making bullshit claims at every opportunity and thinking they can get away with their made-up BS because "it's just my opinion, bro". You know what you said was a lie, I am not going to budge an inch on this matter:
You WILL reply that you have both received and understood what I just said.
You WILL reply that you're sorry.
You WILL reply that you will make no further attempts at lying.

Like DCM told you, I dont recognise your authority over my sense of self. I haven't lied about anything, what have I lied about? This is not a BDSM relationship nor is it a communist self-criticism session in a re-education camp. I'll not indulge your little powetripping fantasies and this is is really starting to show your character, so good for you.

I don't care what else with respect to this reply you want to respond to, and how, but I will read affirmations on this, and three of those in total, are we clear?

We're clear that you're on a power trip.

From the posts made on the forums, a few. Because the team has, for the most part, centered around Discord for discussions. As a whole, if I had to guess, around a dozen to two dozen or so? It's hard to quantify the contributions I made, some changes are literally just a few lines in text editor and took a grant total of 5 minutes. Is that "1" contribution?
Also, with respect to forum posts, when I joined as QA at the end of 2017, the game was in a well enough spot; most of the things that irked me have been adressed in one way or another since I became a regular in 1.0; eg. 1.3's tweak of the armour balance. And although some things still irk me, there are others who do not think need further tweaking. I have no overriding authority so we agree to disagree.

I said DCM had a big ego, yours seems even bigger. I'm taking you as an example here, you deep-delve into your history without actually rendering any examples. I said MAJOR changes, I said in particular in regards to revisions. And that's not enough for you to understand that it's not a few lines of code? It's almost like you want recognition for all the "amazing" work you've done. In fact it's not even about the lines of code, if say deviation for all weapons was handled by a few lines of code then changing that would be a huge major change in terms of the impact it has on the community. If you'd step out of your own ego you'd see that and ask not about lines of code but about the impact it has had on players. And it never was about you personally, it may be now lol, but all my posts in regards to this are related to how all or almost all developers and community contributors have treated the general community over the past 10 years.

[Also, just to point this out - regardless of the wild accusations thrown at us, I am still more than happy to reply towards an honest question with the befitting sincerity. This is not at all what one would do if he was as stuck up as you pretend every team member is.]

What wild accusations? What is wild about my accusations? Are they even accusations? Do you want me to find times when the things I talk about have been said? Do you deny that you have no public long term road maps, that you don't take in votes on things, that you rarely if ever reverse major gameplay changes based on community feedback, that you control map pools, that you control server distribution, etc?

And as I've re-iterated several times, I believe that this, especially in the early stages of development helped perhaps to solidify and mold what became an amazing and epic mod and then game. It has had some negative consequences to gameplay as of late, IN MY OPINION, but this is all as I've already said, beyond the point.

The point is and has been, that the door is (very often) locked. You may converse with other community members more politely and vice versa but as you've pointed out YOU and especially the rest of the team (which has generally tired of even conversing with public community members, according to your own words) do not make this game based on our suggestions or even some publicly available design document but as I know someone told me once "we make the game we want to play and if you want to play it too, then that's great".

It's not bad, it just is what it is and DCM should accept that.

Like, what the actual fuck is your problem?

With you personally? That you think that you're so special. With the team in general? Nothing, I've learned to accept it and so have most people. DCM hasn't yet, which is why he's making like post after post on a dead board.