Operation Schlagwetter [WIP]

[SemlerPDX]

First of all, great work making your ideas into a reality! It's not easy, but don't be put off by input from those trying to help - keep up the hard work and try to remain open to helpful ideas. We all can tend to get overly fond of certain things we build which in reality may even change (or should change) before we are done, so there's some "separation anxiety" in refactors or redesigns - but if a thing is worth doing, it's worth doing well!



Just from an outside perspective here, that airport looks very "video gamey"... meaning, you have very large aircraft on display which are too wide for this base, with outbuildings closely lined along taxiways which would make it impossible for them to taxi and a runway too short for them to take off or land. There are also no ramps or hangars large enough to contain them. Not sure if there is an element of elevation missing from such a top-down view, but trees just before (or just after) the end of the runway are typically cleared for safety, and therefore looks very "off", IMHO.

Also, one of the taxiways along the runway is so close that even those smaller aircraft's wings would traverse onto the active runway else risk colliding with the buildings placed so close to that taxiway. There is very little space between taxiways and buildings in general, and looks like the entire thing was scaled down (or the aircraft pictured on it scaled up).

There are additionally a number of what looks like rocky outcroppings in the grassy area between the taxiway and the runway. In an airport, this is called a runway safety area (RSA). The RSA is designed to provide a buffer zone between the runway and other areas of the airport, such as taxiways and buildings. In the event of an aircraft overshooting the runway or veering off course, the RSA can help to prevent damage to the aircraft and reduce the risk of injury to passengers and crew. In military airports, the RSA may also be used for other purposes, such as training exercises or aircraft storage. I can't tell you how many times that RSA has saved my bacon coming home damaged with hung gear, only able to land on my empty fuel bags, as I slid off the runway into the grass while emergency response is rolling. Granted PR is not a combat flight simulator like Falcon BMS, but basic real world principles should still apply to design choices like these for good reason.



Constructive criticism is yours to take or leave, and it's provided not to hurt you but to help you - keep that in mind as you read these replies and suggestions, know they are coming from a good place. Harsh realities and outside perspectives help keep us all grounded. Reviewing actual real world setups and some basic understanding of "why" they are set up the way they are (such as runway lengths, buildings placement, taxiway layouts, etc.) can go a long way to helping you make a "tacticool" map in terms of design and gameplay. By understanding the challenges other map designers have faced and overcome, you can better avoid "re-inventing the wheel" as well as those same pitfalls and perils, and make a decent map into a great map!

Best wishes and good luck with your endeavor!!

[KSK Membra]

Thank you for your wishes!

Hereby I give you guys the files for the map, to test it out and see it ingame.

P.S (Ignore the lines of the trees for now)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

[Catmouse]

I wanted to post this in another thread, but since you are building a map around an airport in Germany:

A great inspiration is the area around "Frankfurter Kreuz" - a key area for instrastructure, mobility, and military assets in Germany. There is forest, military installations, airport building and runway, and of course, an high volume autobahn crossing. I could imagine this would be amazing base for a 4 Km map, and could offer very diverse gameplay due to the tactical nature of the terrain.

The Autobahns in Germany, also around the Frankfurt area, were designated to be aircraft landing and takeoff spots during combat operations. Basically, emergency airports. Look up the Reforger Operations for literature research.

Impressions from the Internet:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Frankfurter-Kreuz-Luftbild.jpg]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Frankfurter-Kreuz-Luftbild.jpg

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurter_Kreuz#/media/File:Frankfurter_Kreuz_Luftaufnahme.jpg

Happy to help you with concept and research if you choose this area.

[KSK Membra]

Appreciate the feedback. The Map is supposed to be located somewhere in Eastern Europe and not Germany.

[SemlerPDX]

Appreciate the feedback. The Map is supposed to be located somewhere in Eastern Europe and not Germany.

Really?! ...I think that person (and most of the rest of us) assumed it was in East Germany for some reason

Name: Operation Schlagwetter
Location: East Germany
Size: 2k
Factions: Germany vs Russia (for now)
Game Play Type: Infantry + Vehicle

[KSK Membra]

Well the terrain gives it out yes, but in the city there is a statue of a soviet soldier and flag called "Soldier's Memorial". It makes more sense if it was Eastern Europe and not East Germany, even though it could be but I doubt they had soviet statues other than in Berlin.

[KSK Membra]

1 more thing I'd like to add about the "Airfield being too open". I understand that, but its the same as Kashan Desert. The Airfield has couple of holes in the middle where the grass is, which later I'll change to concrete or smth else. Also this map will require Mortars if the Infantry would like to push up from Missile Silo to Terminal. Mortars could provide Infantry with smokes in order for them to push, which is a good thing since I rarely see Mortar Smokes being used.

[Rabbit]

So let me start with this. Its pretty fucking annoying that no dev mappers have jumped in here to help you out. Only 2 have been around long enough to be too annoyed by it.

Mainly. What are you most set on because it doesn't seem like you have any direction, that you pulled every idea out of a hat. You threw out your whole idea of German for a god damn statue. So what I need to know, and more importantly what you need you to know is what are you core ideas. What they seem to be is..

1.You want a contested airbase
2.You want a dense forest

Is there anything else? Everything else seems fluid and honestly overused in PR by rookie mappers that need to pick new points of interest but aren't creative. Like silent eagle, route and falcon. Granted while I think they are very unimaginative and I have no idea how they are popular they seem to be but id still suggest coming up with unique points of interest.

Finally, when it comes to your other points on interest i'd suggest keeping them at least 175m to preferably 250m (from their center point of that point of interest )away from the edge of your map unless it is a main base.

[KSK Membra]

Yes, I will do that the next time moving the points but I dont get what you mean by "you threw out your whole idea of german for a god damn statue". Overall this map is to be an infantry map and yes as you said rookies do that mistake which I have done since this is my 2nd map made. Obviously I'll get all the suggestions and considerate them for future maps

[SemlerPDX]

...but I dont get what you mean by "you threw out your whole idea of german for a god damn statue".

By that, it's fairly clear he is referring to your replies:

Appreciate the feedback. The Map is supposed to be located somewhere in Eastern Europe and not Germany.

...and this:

Well the terrain gives it out yes, but in the city there is a statue of a soviet soldier and flag called "Soldier's Memorial". It makes more sense if it was Eastern Europe and not East Germany, even though it could be but I doubt they had soviet statues other than in Berlin.

...especially given the fact that STILL the OP of your thread here reads this:

Name: Operation Schlagwetter
Location: East Germany
Size: 2k
Factions: Germany vs Russia (for now)
Game Play Type: Infantry + Vehicle

[KSK Membra]

Fixed due to changing plans later

[Rabbit]

Okay a big overall question I have still stands. Is there any part of your original concept that you want to see through to them end. Something that you wont abandon and must remain part of your original idea. Or are you just trying to make a map for PR and thinking of things that might be interesting. I feel like we need to know what YOUR goals are people can give feedback that helps you. And maybe an actual mapping dev will come and help you seeing as they still haven't even though they are better suited to.

[Ason]

I like the idea of fighting over an airport in a european setting, although since you decided to make a 2km map if I were you I would make the airfield more or less the only focus of the map. There could be different poi's within the airfield, for example terminal buildings, office buildings, hangars, supply and storage facilities, barracks for soldiers etc.

Having those smaller poi's that seem to have nothing to do with an airport at the edges of the map, don't really fit the size and they look pretty unatural.

As others mentioned there should be room around the airport for airplanes to land without having to worry about hitting trees. I would add more crop fields/open areas around the airport.

The airfield itself is the biggest problem imo. I'm sorry to say but it looks very unrealistic. The proportions of runway width and length is way off. If I were you I would redo the airfield and make the runway go diagonally from SE to NW.

Another point is Operation Falcon seems very similar to this. That's another reason to make the main focus of the map revolve around the airfield and not random poi's around it.

Lastly I would recommend looking at more real-life references. look at pictures and google maps of airfields. I think this is the most important thing to make your map better.

With all that said I think you've done a much better job than others who tried making maps. You definately seem to have the potential to make a good map, it just needs more inspiration and ideas from similar real-life areas imo.

Good luck!

And maybe an actual mapping dev will come and help you seeing as they still haven't even though they are better suited to.

To me, you will always be a mapping dev

[Outlawz7]

So let me start with this. Its pretty fucking annoying that no dev mappers have jumped in here to help you out. Only 2 have been around long enough to be too annoyed by it.

It's 2023, Discord is a thing.

[KSK Membra]

Changes

Removed Airport and added a City [IN PROGRESS STILL]

[KSK Membra]

Okay a big overall question I have still stands. Is there any part of your original concept that you want to see through to them end. Something that you wont abandon and must remain part of your original idea. Or are you just trying to make a map for PR and thinking of things that might be interesting. I feel like we need to know what YOUR goals are people can give feedback that helps you. And maybe an actual mapping dev will come and help you seeing as they still haven't even though they are better suited to.

I just go along the way and think stuff out

[KSK Membra]

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[Rusty_42]

Is that a satire? If not, please, go outside and check how actual world looks like.

[puffkiller]

It looks better than before, but there is also a new problem.

There seem to be too many apartments with internal space, and in PVP mode, you need to clean every building, just like a dragonfly.

[KSK Membra]

Is that a satire? If not, please, go outside and check how actual world looks like.

Thanks for an irrelevant comment especially coming from you.