[Gameplay] Deviation modifications

[Jaymz]

So can I get an answer from you Jaymz. Arent you worried that the lower numbers will revert PR back to the old style of point and click but with the added waiting time?

The reasoning is that the added wait time is what prevents point and click. In a point and click scenario,

1. It gives the upper hand to players defending a position. Jonny Rambo will still get cut down by the squad defending their position before his timer for high accuracy has reached 0.

2. It gives a big advantage to attackers that use leap frog tactics. The bounders will always be covered by accurate fire.

[Sadist_Cain]

Im lying if I say im not scared...

But I have faith in the devvys and trust all will be grand and this is just another stage of tweaking to attain perfection

[hiberNative]

2. It gives a big advantage to attackers that use leap frog tactics. The bounders will always be covered by accurate fire.

good videos on the leap frog (first) and other tactics (second)

[Big Lebowski]

Where the Deviation system fails in PR is that in RL you would know when you are ready to shoot. In PR you can only roughly guess when you a ready to shoot, cause of the previously removed crosshairs.

I dont like crosshairs but if your gonna use a system like this, the crosshairs would have to be reimplement, or alternatively some other indicator that would show when you are at maximum accuracy.

[Zegel]

Thats the point I was getting at earlier. You can't feel when your elbow is steadied onto a ledge and you can't see when your scope is truly lined up. HAT-parenthesis?

[AgentMongoose]

Perhaps the deviation should be the most drastic when prone <starts high and drops quickly>(to prevent instaproning) my idea is:

Prone @ 250m

0 Seconds : 20m
1 Seconds : 10m
2 Seconds : 5.0m
3 Seconds : 2.4m
4 Seconds : 1.7m
5 Seconds : 1.0m
6 Seconds : 0.4m

[AgentMongoose]

:/ can't edit my last post to include:

I dont like crosshairs but if your gonna use a system like this, the crosshairs would have to be reimplement, or alternatively some other indicator that would show when you are at maximum accuracy.

Have you ever tried counting?

[Big Lebowski]

:/ can't edit my last post to include:


Have you ever tried counting?

Please explain to me how counting is more realistic then a crosshair. Its exactly the same concept.

In RL you dont see a crossair but you sure *** hell dont count to 3 every time you take a shot either.

[{GD}siredmond]

There still a stiff penalty for using bursts, even short ones. Recoil, and deviation effectively make bursts even more useless.

[CodeRedFox]

Please explain to me how counting is more realistic then a crosshair.

??:

"Buddie buddie!"
"Yeah waz up"
"I got these dame cross hairs stuck in my eye"
"Oh wow there in there good"
"Yeah I need some water from your canteen to flush them out"


OH ****!
What what what?
Theres a tiny map stuck your contact!
Ewwww gross

[Big Lebowski]

coderedfox;820561'] ??:

"Buddie buddie!"
"Yeah waz up"
"I got these dame cross hairs stuck in my eye"
"Oh wow there in there good"
"Yeah I need some water from your canteen to flush them out"


OH ****!
What what what?
Theres a tiny map stuck your contact!
Ewwww gross

B]"Buddie buddie!"[/B]
"Yeah waz up"
"I got are target in sight"
"well, shoot it then idiot"
"wait! wait! i have to count first 1... 2... 3... bang 1... 2... 3... bang"

MAN YOU SUCK!
What what what?
Just shoot the damn thing!
But PR told me this was realistic!?

[Big Lebowski]

sorry, but your "explanation" dident quite do it for me...

[Seiran]

Ok two questions

1 - Why the increased wait time for follow up shots on the DMR? Balance issue or something? (Not hating on the tweaks, they seem like they should help alot. Just curious on this)

2 - Will there be additional recoil on the SAW when in prone/Deployed mode? It seems like there is almost none in-game at present.

[AgentMongoose]

B]"Buddie buddie!"[/B]
"wait! wait! i have to count first 1... 2... 3... bang 1... 2... 3... bang"

from my understanding it is:
1... 2... 5...
NO WAIT 3...

BANG... BANG... BANG...

not 3 sec between shots- just moving. and yes its realistic. some people can pop accurate shots of at 250ms easy and accurately - but most take a second or two to make sure the shot is lined up.

[random pants]

Just got back from a long ban.....and now I'm going to take shit about something I don't understand

Read the several explanations for the six second wait time I have posted in this thread

-Jaymz

[hiberNative]

Just got back from a long ban.....and now I see that deviation is going to be made worse....not better?

Increasing settle-time from two and change to SIX SECONDS??? This is a joke...right? I mean c'mon...

haha welcome back, dude.
i actually think it's good to make the accuracy keep rising the longer you aim. you can still pop people fine @ 50 meters in urban environments within a very short steadying time, but you also get better accuracy when stalking infantry far away at kashan from prone.
what's bad about that?

[hiberNative]

edit:

ok so i've looked deeper into how this may affect gameplay (i wish i was a beta tester), and i may be wrong but:



the car furthest away is @ 250m (much further away than you though, huh?)
the car close to me is @ 50m.

Standing @ 250m

0 Seconds : 7m
1 Seconds : 5.9m
2 Seconds : 4.8m
3 Seconds : 3.8m
4 Seconds : 2.7m
5 Seconds : 1.7m
6 Seconds : 0.7m

so i took the worst case scenario with a standing shot at the 50m target with 2 seconds of aiming time from static. 4.8m deviation / 5 = 0.96m

Take into account that a soldier in the BF2 engine is roughly 0.4 meters wide.

this would be the max spread that the rifle will have with 2 seconds of aiming time @ 50 meters from standing position. remember that the spread from crouch would be 0.72m and from prone 0.6m (i hope this doesn't promote instaprone in cqb).

more often than not (if you're playing right) you see a target before he sees you and can take 3 seconds or more from crouch, and the results would be very positive: 0.4m spread with 3 seconds aiming time @ 50m... and 0.4 was the bf2 soldiers estimated width

[waldo_ii]

Crouching @ 250m

0 Seconds : 5.2m
1 Seconds : 4.4m


Prone @ 250m

0 Seconds : 4.3m
1 Seconds : 3.7m

Waldo is very upset about the imminent pronespamming.

Prone should start out huge, much larger than crouching, but then decrease at a rate faster than crouching so they intersect at 2 seconds.

y is deviation cone in meters
x is seconds

Crouch should be along the general idea of y=-x+5
Prone should be along the general idea of y=2x+7

At two seconds, the two lines intersect such that after that (2,3), prone is more accurate.

Of course, these are linear graphs, which wouldn't work, but the idea is the same.

BTW, the current graphs are about
crouch
.00595x^2+-.818x+5.2

prone
-.0024x^2+-.643x+4.3

[OkitaMakoto]

Making prone start out large does sound good, and could be worth looking into, but at the same time, that would mean that if you were already prone on a rooftop, then tapped A for a second to shift over a tad... youd have to wait longer as well... which isnt gonna be any fun and will be a big problem for a lot of people...

Once again, blame the fact that we cant make the act of going prone affect it. [As far as I understand it] It has to affect all of being prone at once essentially

Although in my opinion, doing that to prone and making crouch MUCH better when moving and stopping would be a good idea. Make it so that if you are gonna go prone youd better not be moving all that much in prone. If you do move, youll have to wait. Sucks a bit, yeah, but in a way, I think IRL moving with a rifle while crouched is easier than moving with a rifle up and ready to fire while prone. :shrug:

Thats not me saying implement it, just figured Id go off that above idea and see if any good idea came from it. Any DEV who wants to feel free and delete this for suggesting things in this thread

[Jaymz]

Trust me lads, if making prone start off larger could be done I'd do it. It can't though, just like we can't delay firing your weapon while going prone. Would be nice. As you can see though, prone accuracy is only slightly better than crouch to make it useful for the maximum engagement range.