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Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-09 12:40
by mectus11
pwner_pt wrote:
Spoofing names has been happening before yep. But taking the exact same nickname now is new.
Anyways...why you postin here. You are one of the people who doesn't want to give real feadback. You're just here to talk us down (again). One of those who complains for years that we should put in more guest admins, but as soon as we did you just waitin there to report and get rid of them again. Your posts do not make sense.

Taking the exact nickname is not new btw.

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-09 12:45
by PBAsydney
pwner_pt wrote:Spoofing names has been happening before yep. But taking the exact same nickname now is new.
Spoofing exact name to elicit a ban on said person has been around for as long as spoofing names has.

Back when a certain person who shall not be named was global banned and he started his grief-streak, he started off by spoofing people he didn't like to get them banned, such as hunter and casualty, which had a very high success rate on servers where admins ban first and don't ask questions at all.

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-09 13:01
by pwner_pt
When I talk about spoofing a name there is two ways. I'll try to explain it now that you can even show your kids and they will understand it.



old way:

pwner_pt (original)
pwner__pt (spoofed)


now:

pwner_pt (original)
pwner_pt (spoofed)







But yeah...another one of those who is zero interested in our server but only talks because he is uncomfortable with anything in his life. The simple solution for that is just to leave us alone if you don't like us. We are not owning the game. If you leave us you still can play the game. We are only hosting our server with our rules and our immagination and our community. We listen to our community. If you want to be part of it, ok we cool with it, but don't act like that. If not just go away and don't expect us to listen to you.

You can't come to another's people house and behave like you want it. Learn that please.




regards,

pwner_pt

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-09 15:37
by PBAsydney
pwner_pt wrote:When I talk about spoofing a name there is two ways. I'll try to explain it now that you can even show your kids and they will understand it.



old way:

pwner_pt (original)
pwner__pt (spoofed)


now:

pwner_pt (original)
pwner_pt (spoofed)
Thank you for being so condescending, I shall try and return the favor.
mectus11 wrote:Taking the exact nickname is not new btw.
PBAsydney wrote:Spoofing exact name to elicit a ban....
[quote=""Dictionary"]exact
adjective
1.
not approximated in any way; precise.
"the exact details were still being worked out"[/quote]

[quote="pwner_pt""]
But yeah...another one of those who is zero interested in our server but only talks because he is uncomfortable with anything in his life. The simple solution for that is just to leave us alone if you don't like us. We are not owning the game. If you leave us you still can play the game. We are only hosting our server with our rules and our immagination and our community. We listen to our community. If you want to be part of it, ok we cool with it, but don't act like that. If not just go away and don't expect us to listen to you.[/quote]
I do have interest in the server, since it is often the only properly seeded server, therefore I make sure to follow your rules, on your server whenever I am playing there. But it is only healthy to open a discussion and critique on the forums.

And the whole "If you don't like it go somewhere else" mentality whenever someone criticizes you seems a bit immature to me.

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-09 15:49
by Suchar
pwner_pt wrote:pwner_pt (original)
pwner_pt (spoofed)
It's not possible to create an in-game account with the exact same nickname.

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-09 15:50
by saXoni
PBAsydney wrote:And the whole "If you don't like it go somewhere else" mentality whenever someone criticizes you seems a bit immature to me.
It's standard HOG whenever they receive criticism, and as we all know they're a bunch of hardcore older gamers so it's far from immature.

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-09 16:14
by Frontliner
pwner_pt wrote: But yeah...another one of those who is zero interested in our server but only talks because he is uncomfortable with anything in his life. The simple solution for that is just to leave us alone if you don't like us. We are not owning the game. If you leave us you still can play the game. We are only hosting our server with our rules and our immagination and our community. We listen to our community. If you want to be part of it, ok we cool with it, but don't act like that. If not just go away and don't expect us to listen to you.

You can't come to another's people house and behave like you want it. Learn that please.
Pwner, let me ask you this question:
You do realize that the mic spamming that has been going on for a while is archieved through copying a player's nickname on mumble?
Bastiannnn, and whoever else got permbanned by you for micspamming the other day likely never did anything. Viirus or somebody else was impersonating him by changing his nickname in mumble to match that of the person he wanted to see gone.
Now, if you would be so kind to unban these players we could all happily move on as normal.

Nobody here has an interest in seeing HOG getting destroyed, and the feedback provided by most veterans is usually fair. We all understand that sometimes things are getting heated and mishaps happen, that's fine. All we're asking of you, as a grown up, is to correct your mistakes in a timely manner so that we can all move on smoothly.

One more word: You may not like that you're being talked back to, but that's not an offense on the forums. What IS an offense however is calling someone a failure in life over a simple statement. That is completely uncalled for and I personally would argue that you should apologize to both Sydney and Mectus for it.

@Sydney: This does go both ways, getting insulted doesn't mean you get to insult each other even if that's your first instinct. Calm down and stay civil, and if that doesn't help, talk to one of the higher ups before you lose your temper.

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-09 22:32
by pwner_pt
Another one...

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-10 10:05
by Clund
I mean it all boils down to one point:

being pissed off and complaining because being wrongfully punished is a banable offense on HOG. Apparently.

Is this correct?

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-10 11:37
by pwner_pt
There is the point. If you would take all your effort and energy in reading correctly and step back starting to think a second instead lettin out all your frustration here (no matter what reason), you should have realized that the accident had been corrected an hour after his ban. <<< 2 days after this happened FRIENDS of him (not even himself) who have absolutly NOTHING to do with it come here and arrange to meet all together for this shitshow <<<<<<<<<<<< THIS IS NO FEEDBACK

Again. We don't own the game. If we ban somebody we only banned him from OUR server. Not the other ones.
Of course you can complain about it and argue with us (>>> thats the well known "ban appeal"). You also are allowed to give us your feedback in here we'll take it. BUT sending your friends ahead who are INVOLVED IN NOTHING OF IT because you might haven't the balls to come here by yourself is weak and has no intention of creatin a useful feedback we can work on.

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-10 12:02
by LEGIYA
I request unbann. Banned on Silent Eagle, saw "JK47: !r LEGIYA helicopter crash"(or something similar) fake report ofc.
It had nothing to do with me, i never have flown a helicopter.

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-10 12:03
by Clund
I am just reading this thread. I am not affiliated with any of the people who got banned here.

So you unbanned the guy who got wrongly banned and banned the right guy? Then communicate this with the public. Writing something like: "sorry for wrongfully banning you, the admin was not yet very experienced" is more than enough to settle this problem once and for all with everybody being happy. Being nice to some angry guy is most times the best way to calm him down.

If you are rude to everybody don't be surprised if people are pissed of all the time at you. (This goes for both sides)

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-10 12:09
by LEGIYA
pwner_pt wrote:hey everybody,

some comments from a not-headadmin.






You did not got banned for reporting people. You got banned for spamming the allchat still after getting a lot of warnings not to do it. Several admins warned the whole server to stop it several times due to investigate a lot of griefer action. You made yourself come into this situation by not listening. And it was quiet hard to miss those warnings when you look at the amount of those messages. Go to http://hogclangaming.com and appeal your ban there.





You have 3 accounts on HOG server with 3 different hashes but the exact same IP all made at one day. The fact his forum account here is from 2009 should not confuse you to see that he just wants to make some trouble and does not even answering to the questions on his ban appeal.
http://http://hogclangaming.com/index.php/forum/ban-appeals/3831-banned-for-no-reason

Make up your own mind...





Spoofing names has been happening before yep. But taking the exact same nickname now is new.
Anyways...why you postin here. You are one of the people who doesn't want to give real feadback. You're just here to talk us down (again). One of those who complains for years that we should put in more guest admins, but as soon as we did you just waitin there to report and get rid of them again. Your posts do not make sense.






Yeah we tried to work on it. Was pretty hard yesterday. Thanks for your report.




regards,

pwner_pt
Only thing i remember writing was "Helicopter drive by *****" cuz i saw a cow in the air in place and shooting machine guns" Can i see logs?

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-10 12:44
by pwner_pt
Today 13:03
Clund
Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*
I am just reading this thread. I am not affiliated with any of the people who got banned here.

So you unbanned the guy who got wrongly banned and banned the right guy? Then communicate this with the public. Writing something like: "sorry for wrongfully banning you, the admin was not yet very experienced" is more than enough to settle this problem once and for all with everybody being happy. Being nice to some angry guy is most times the best way to calm him down.

If you are rude to everybody don't be surprised if people are pissed of all the time at you. (This goes for both sides)
Go read an inform yourself it is all written down multiple times, until you did that I would nicely suggest you to be quiet.


Today 13:02
LEGIYA
Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*
I request unbann. Banned on Silent Eagle, saw "JK47: !r LEGIYA helicopter crash"(or something similar) fake report ofc.
It had nothing to do with me, i never have flown a helicopter.
You might be confused because so many people writen here in stuff they are not involved to. Maybe you might have missed the answer you already received and quoted by yourself. (<<< I can understand that)

Please go look it up again.

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-10 13:02
by Mineral
pwner_pt I don't think you really understand what is happening.

You don't get to tell people here to be quiet or insult them. You do that plenty on your own forums.

Lots of people are justifiably angry cause you mishandled a difficult situation with the griefers and many rather innocent players got caught in the crossfire. And people want to post their anger and displeasure with the situation. If you can't handle even the feedback on that then I'm not sure you are in the right position right now. And your and HOGs handling of the situation has been absolutely terrible. You are feeding into the griefers hands with your actions and you are continuing to do so.

I ask HOG management to take charge in this situation cause this isn't going in the correct direction.

If you can't help yourself to continue absolute nonsense in here I suggest you simply stop answering.

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-10 13:49
by pwner_pt
There has been a mistaken and the mistaken has been corrected. Immediately right after it. Even before you guys could complain. What do you want more ?

There was no cross fire...what the hell are you talking about? Every other player who we investigated was legit torwards to our rules.


Again, mistake has already conceded and handled before you guys got to know of it generally even happened.

And don't blame the other ones, they have nothing to do with it. If you want to go to report me hell go for it. Feel free. That's your right. But don't put things inhere which never happened.

But tell me what do you want more now?

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-10 13:53
by Bastiannn
Let me walk you through, Pwner.
I will present context to what happened recently while expanding on every point you and the others made, and then some from myself.

Context to the influx of feedback

A few days ago, in the thread What happened to the playerbase? someone started adressing the way some PR servers are managed, past and present, including, but not limiting to, HOG. After that quite a few more people joined the discussion. Again, it was not specifically about HOG but also about other communities.

Coincidentally, after this matter was brought into discussion, a few days later, during 3 consecutive maps on HOG, there was a big numbers of bans handed to players. After this, someone created a new topic in the PR:BF2 General Discussion subcategory on this forum and again, a few more people joined the discussion.
However, a moderator of this forum decided that was not the place suited for such topics, and moved all the replies in that thread, which were adressing HOG issues, to this thread, which is about HOG feedback. After this, like before, a few more people joined the discussion.





The huge number of bans being handed that night (which ignited this discussion here)

Having played during the time when the bans were handed I can tell you this:

1. People were banned for spamming the allchat. Admins warned quite a few times that they should cut any all chat talk. People still got banned because they talked in all chat. Meanwhile admins were apparently investigating griefers on the server.

Everything seems to be good up until here. Whats the problem? Well, for one, the fact that there was no consistency in who got banned. Some kept talking in all chat without being punished, after some got banned. However, you could see a little pattern:
Admins warns to stop all chat -> People still all chat -> People get banned
People again talk in all chat -> No ban -> Someone says something like that guy who mentioned Jevski -> He gets banned. As if, if he said something that caught the eye of the admins, that was bannable, but if someone else said something irrelevant it was ok. However, it was all chat in both cases. And the warning said to cut all chat. And the bans said all chat.

2. Griefers were banned, which is ok.

3. People got banned, myself included, because someone was spoofing their names and spamming bannable stuff over mumble.

Admins should be aware of this things happening in the community as its been happening for quite some time. If you argue you were not aware, the hierarchy should have been aware regardless and had the responsibility to keep you informed.

You should also properly look into it, just like you mention: reading things correctly, carefully and 'step back starting to think a second'.

4. Your communication with the players is inexistent





HOG admins dealing with the players

So I mention earlier I get banned. What happened next? Well, having zero ideas on why I could get banned, I join their discord. I join the voice channel, where the online admins tend to be. There, I see B11TME and Pwner, both of which I remember at the time seeing in game. I say hello and then ask why could I possibly be banned for, being politely throughout. One of them asks me who am I, I say Bastian, to which he says "Fuck off" while the other was increasingly nose exhaling. I ask one more time what happened after which I leave the voice channel as I only get mockery.
I head to the forums to create a ban appeal. I start filling my ban appeal while noticing I got banned from the discord server.
A lead admin or owner tells me why I got banned from the logs
2019-03-08 15:29] !BAN performed by '=HOG= pwner_pt' on 'C|RIF Bastiannn': spamming "admins are n***** fuckin n**** ******* n****" over mumble on loading screen round before
I explain the whole spoofing thing and tell them I did not do such thing, while also mentioning the previous 2 maps were filled with such behaviour and they should also be aware of the spoofing thing.

Pwner comes in again, to tell me he checked mumble in game, while telling me once again to Fuck off.
We exchange a couple more replies in which I explain what happened while giving context and specifics, while Pwner keeps asking some questions. I tell them I was Commander, but pwner asks me who my squad mates where. I tell him I was CO again, and he asks again 'What squadmates at khami? Why you not answering my questions?' to which I have to explain the CO does not have squadmates.
He says he never saw me commander, and he will have to check it, and that if I lie 'i'm fucked'. Checking also takes a lot because HOG files are delayed compared to SSG and PRTA, and a ban appeal is very sluggish.

Up to here you can see that you do not read carefully or correctly, and that your behaviour as an admin, even more in a ban appeal, is appaling. You didn't even bother to check me in game before banning me, you didn't even know what I was doing that round, and you had to ask me what I was doing in that round AFTER you banned me AFTER I came to your forums.

Of course, the matter resolves itself (not with the help of admins) and Pwner says I can be unbanned from the server and from discord, and as is standard procedure I have to wait for a head admin to come and unban.
I later get unbanned (not 1 hour) from the PR server. As for the discord server, It appears I am still banned.

At the end of this, of course, your behaviour in the ban appeal was not brought up to question. Your ability to admin, your incapability to read carefully and correctly and to properly investigate was brushed off to the pile of the other solved ban appeals.

One month prior, same story, different admin. His failure to properly investigate got me wrongfully banned and I had to wait a bit to solve the matter.

At the end of both ban appeals HOG's conclusion was the same: I should consider myself lucky I was unbanned, even though I did nothing wrong, while the admin proved his inability to do anything right.

You can look for yourself at the ban appeals of other players and you can easily find admin abuse, admins treating the players poorly and admins getting away with it.







Why won't the complainers apply for the admin

I see you and others from HOG wondering why do these people, at least those who are able to, not apply to admin on HOG?

The answer is very simple: for your community is appaling, from top to bottom. You have become so hated that nobody is willing to join you. You join, the only thing you can do is get away with abusing normal players. You do not have who to work with under you, you do not have who to work with above you. Its not simply commons admins fault, or just the higher ups fault, its both and inbetween. Shoutout a few pages back to the behaviour of your (Lead?) Admin.
Having a few good apples join you would only prolong and promote such scummy behaviour, and nobody sane would willingly do that.






HOG dealing with criticism

You have received a lot of criticism. Yes, some of it is just bad mouthing. Some of it are just people talking shit without going into details. But you have received a good amount of precise criticism which you have time and time again ignored and played off.
Someone is rightfully criticising you, you start attacking the person saying it, while not adressing the issue. You have proved it again with your recent replies. And if you do that for a bit, people see its a waste of time and stick to shit talking you.

In this specific case, you explicitely play down criticism and attack others saying I sent people I am friends with to criticise you just because they presented my case along others. I did not do that, nor is it good for you to imply you ignore feedback just because people criticisng you are 'friends'.

As if somehow, the definition of 'friend' to you is 'people who say the same thing about HOG'. No. Some of these people I don't even know, with others I rarely played. But what I have in common with most of them is the fact that we are part of the same community, and that when we met in game, or somewhere online, we found out we share the same values. Thats why someone came in my ban appeal and added on my behalf, and then another basically did your job for you and explained everything, both voluntarily. Thats why people are coming here and saying you do things wrong. Not because we are 'friends' who blindly follow the other no matter what, but because we share these values which brought us together, the same values HOG spits on every day.

Thats why I did not even bother to come here and provide 'feedback' after I witnessed so many wrongdoings on your server, even more so being direclty abused by you. Because its a waste of time which you confirmed past, present and future. These people, who presented my case and others, are simply people who still think you take feedback and will somehow change. Or maybe they just want to warn other people regarding you.

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-10 15:36
by lespyd
As of recent, I have been added as one of the Head Admins for =HOG= and thus will be responding to the latest feedback in an official capacity.

While the actions taken immediately at the time were within the limitations of our rules, I agree with the community here that the response after said actions, are poor. Specifically, I apologize to the people who were mistakenly banned due to greifers, and for our subsequent response to some of you. I have spoken with the admin in question and the rest of the admin team about demeanor in the heat of moment.

I believe all incorrect bans have been remedied, however please reach out on our website if this is not the case. Please note, some are not incorrect, and may be due to breaking different rules, which can be easily addressed individually.

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-10 17:18
by LiamBai
lespyd wrote:I have spoken with the admin in question and the rest of the admin team about demeanor in the heat of moment.
What, if I may ask, was the conclusion of this discussion?

While I (and I'm sure many others) appreciate the apology and assurance that action has been taken, to me it feels a little lackluster given the actions taken by the admin, and especially given the replies by the admin in question in this thread, on your forums, and in your discord.

How can we be sure that it will not happen again?

Re: =HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

Posted: 2019-03-10 21:17
by LEGIYA
lespyd wrote:As of recent, I have been added as one of the Head Admins for =HOG= and thus will be responding to the latest feedback in an official capacity.

While the actions taken immediately at the time were within the limitations of our rules, I agree with the community here that the response after said actions, are poor. Specifically, I apologize to the people who were mistakenly banned due to greifers, and for our subsequent response to some of you. I have spoken with the admin in question and the rest of the admin team about demeanor in the heat of moment.

I believe all incorrect bans have been remedied, however please reach out on our website if this is not the case. Please note, some are not incorrect, and may be due to breaking different rules, which can be easily addressed individually.
I would rather wait until any other server is playable insted of wasting my time for your site about your servers mistakes.