'[R-CON wrote:UTurista;2178604']No its not. Both sides are being biased with casualty being the only one that is making an effort to make and show the current status of the flares/missiles.
I've re-read the thread and there's not even consensus within the "CAS whore" community of what is "wrong!". Everyone is just saying "they're to OP!" but not explaining "how are they OP?". Except virus, indeed he blames not the AA itself but the amount and range of it,
hereand
here.
This being said, he also says v0.98 flares/AA was the best but for what I remember that was still one of those versions where literately everyone would hide the moment CAS spawned until its death. I also remember perfect placed AAs not doing anything, even when they made a perfect triangle overlapping each other, CAS could go dive in the centre, kill the target and flare away. That is why there's so many AAs (static, handled, mobile) available.
I'd suggest clear topics of what is wrong with AA (maybe even making dedicated threads), cause if there are any I'm missing (except like I said the amount one).
The point is that you're right, most of us don't do CAS so we don't know the struggle BUT
- "CAS whores" are not explaining the problem correctly
- There's some contradiction even in this small group
- Most people only see "CAS whores" as K/D horders
Jesus christ can't you read? The problems have been explained dozens of times in this thread so far. Hell, even I've said the same things again and again in several posts. It's just that different people have different ways of explaining the same problems. If there is some problem with reading comprehension with you guys, I will make one more simplified explanation for you with few main points:
*Flares are useless*
-They fail to deceive missiles, instead attract them TOWARDS the AIRCRAFT. This is both UNREALISTIC AND
UNPLAYABLE, so exact opposite of how things should be
*MANPAD*
- too good (range, kill propability), shifts the AA focus on lonewolf kit instead of coordinated effort (AA emplacements, vehicles) which requires teamwork and organizing which PR is all about? AA emplacements and AAVs used to have upper hand on MANPADs as they had more missiles = bigger probability of kill with multiple missiles launched. Now probability of kill is so high, that MANPAD has replaced both aforementioned assets as 1 missile is most of times enough to kill enemy air asset. MANPAD is almost impossible to spot from aircraft, MANPAD can hide easier, can move undetected to places where AAV and FOB AA could be spotted.
*Dogfight*
-See first, kill first. No skill required in air combat anymore, dogfights are just one big furball of jets one-shotting eachother until the last man stands. Gun is close to useless as missiles work too good and flares are useless, gun ammo is reduced and the high bullet drop combined with ridiculous BF2 netcode requires huge amounts of lead to hit enemy aircraft. If infantry warfare would be exactly like dogfights right now, every player would have aimbot and 1 HK gun. Would that be fun and skill-demanding?
*Inherent flaws of PR compared to real life*
-Limited view distance, this is great drawback FOR CAS, not for infantry so much. IRL CAS jets could engage even enemy AA systems outside of their reach. Google SEAD for more info. In PR limited view distance puts jets in great disadvantage as unguided munitions are hard to hit on target and puts the jet in great risk as it has to go low to see anything. This makes it very easy for AAs to hit jets. Even MANPADs can bring down fighters, which in real life is not likely to happen as MANPADs have range of ~8 km and jets can fly up to 20 km. This is why MANPAD range would have to be limited to match RL scenario. MANPADs are IRL used primarily against helicopters and LOW-FLYING aircraft.
-Lack of teamwork, comms and intel. You can't expect inf and armor squads to give reliable intel to CAS, they have to be self-sufficient in that sense.
*Requirement for lases*
-It's very demanding to get enough spotters to have targets for CAS airplanes. Jets can't go around the map finding targets alone like tanks and APCs can. Therefore, even with COMPLETE AIR SUPREMACY, and TOTAL LACK OF ENEMY AA, jets are still challenging assets to get kills/damage to enemy team as it pretty much always requires A LASE to hit enemy targets. Most CAS squads couldn't even rack up 20 kills in a round even if there was no enemy CAS or AA. The biggest inherent trouble of CAS jets, is the requirement for lases which is unique to PR assets, and thus, a great handicap. This is why sometimes you see other team with air supremacy and STILL NOT GETTING ANY KILLS.
*Ground attack airplanes are useless*
-They lack the speed which fighters have, which puts them into even more vulnerable position. IRL, they make up the lack of speed in durability. Planes like SU-25 and A-10 can take A LOT more punishing by both triple AA and AA missiles compared to rather fragile fighters. In PR, A-10 and SU-25 can be one-shotted in the same manner as any other jet. Google A-10 Iraq war or SU-25 for more info and pics.
*AA missile damage and physics*
-In PR, every AA missile is of a short range, low-damage type. MANPADs, FOB AAs, and even AAVs fire the same heat-seeking, short range, rather low damage missiles such as Stinger or Strela. There is no long-range high-power AA missiles such as PATRIOT, BUK etc. This should be taken into account when designing the blast radius of missiles.
Also the missiles either have huge blast radius which blow up the aircraft from very far away, or there is a bug where AA missiles explodes and goes through multiple flares to destroy the jet, as per Casualtys video. IRL even jet fighters have some chance of surviving AA missile hit if the missile is of a smaller type. Plus, in PR missiles don't blow up on flares anymore either leaving the jet unharmed or damaging it slightly, AA missiles are a kill or miss type, usually the first choice. Where armored vehicles can sustain a hit and repair, CAS jets and helis go down with the first hit.
Hornet hit by SA-7:
F-14 hit by unknown SAM:
Etendard hit by SA-7:
A-10 hit by hundreds of rounds of AAA:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Campbell_(pilot)
https://forum.keypublishing.com/showthr ... -hit/page2
Here was a small compliation of some of the arguments already presented in this thread, I must've forgotten alot also. Hope this doesn't get dismissed by saying ''there is no effort to make and show the current status of the flares/missiles''.
I would've never had to make this wall of text if the DEVs responsible would actually play this game to see what it's like before they implement new things, but that's probably never going to change.
