I don't understand the people complaining that you won't be able to kill 3 tanks if they roll up on your FOB. Well of course you shouldn't be able to kill them. That's why there are tanks on both sides, or CAS. The point of asset maps is to use combined arms to defeat the enemies, not have the infantry take everything out.
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-14 16:37
by Maj.Osama
really great job on this change , i appreciate you!
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-14 17:09
by Murkey
[R-DEV]Mats391 wrote:There might be more AT options for infantry to compensate
Really interesting update. Thanks. Besides upoming changes and working with other squads, the guided AT kits also come with another option:
Cheers, Murkey.
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-14 18:08
by Mats391
Chuva_RD wrote:not depending on blufor/opfor HATs which can't kill tank or make it burn is not normal
So in next patch panzerfaust will kill tank in rear however other HATs can't, so you make precedent? but for only germans, that how it looks. Give everyone ability to destroy tanks by rear shots with HAT, and this will be very nice
THE PF98 will also most like destroy with one rear shot. Deal 88% damage and 2% terrain damage is very likely. Likely will end on making RPG stronger as it is really bad HAT already anyway with only 150m max range.
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-14 19:09
by PatrickLA_CA
Murkey wrote:Really interesting update. Thanks. Besides upoming changes and working with other squads, the guided AT kits also come with another option:
Cheers, Murkey.
This is exactly what we need next, I might be wrong but didn't the Combined Arms minimod have a top attack mode for one of the HATs?
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-14 19:12
by Hiyy
So does that mean that the "tracking" mechanic of for all vehicles will be out of the mod soon? If that's true I feel like you're missing the diversity that features like that provide to gameplay. It is one of the main things that sets this mod apart from other games. The TOWs not being able to kill a tank from the front is pretty problematic and will make teams with no TOW emplacements (and HATs) pretty much defenceless against tanks.
Pretty much what this guy said:
Scheintot887 wrote:Good to see that you're working on the damage model of tanks.
...
But it does not look infantry friendly. Please do not forget the fact that you cannot rely on perfect rounds. Play PR, take a look into the gameplay.
When a Anti-Tank Position cannot do well against tanks (because Clans in tanks (that means you have three tanks rolling up together, probably with UAV support) will kill a FoB with stationary AT positions) the game will get worst for infantry. Even some none clan PR players who will drive together will do that.
Example: FOB with Tow. Enemy tanks comming across, TOW hits a tank in the front - no effect (at least not enough to surive and defend that FOB). All tanks are engaging, enemy FOB+inf+TOW+AA down.
I don't see the problem with well armored tanks but at the moment they are to many maps with TO MANY tanks + cas + any vehicles you can imagine to actually implement a system like that. It will destroy the balance. It will!
I would prefer less tanks. One tank which has a special meaning to the team. It is importent not to lose that one. He can be effective. He can kill a lot - but he needs to be carefully. That tank crew need to communicate, need to cover the team etc.. otherwhise it will get shot.
PR has ended up in an asset spam and with that armor update (which is good in general) it will get worst for infantry. I don't want to predict the worst case scenario but in my opinion this is probably gonna happen. (90%)...
I've seen a lot of PR updates up to now (playing PR since almost 6-7 years, longer than I am registrated here).
I'm gonna repeat myself: nice that you have the necessary skills and the dedication to that mod, thank you for that... but think about what I've said about that new comming tank/anti tank system which you gonna implement into the game.
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-14 19:57
by Mats391
Tracking vehicles is still in the game.
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-14 20:10
by CG-Delta
Great job. I cheered out loud Good to see details like an extra plate on the side classify that part as front armour. And you work on APCs/IFVs now so it matters where you hit/expose your vehicle. Great.
I'd like to know a bit about angled shots. Example: You're in a tank and see another tank, front towards you, but you can ever so slightly see the side of the tank as well as well: Reality wise I'd say hit the front, as a 10 degree side hit (AP or HEAT) probably wouldn't do much.
But how does it work game wise?
I'm glad that ATGM is less strong so the cannon size makes sense and not every little shit box you put a missile on top of becomes a stronger vehicle than a MTB.
The thing you did with turrets last patch (slow fluid movement/acceleration movement). Some liked it/some didn't. I did. But you could alter turret movement and terrain movement help to define the vehicle (ex. turret movement of less advanced vehicle more clumsy) other than just the weapons you put into it, so the vehicles technology has more to say, and not just the technology of the ammunition available around the world, you stuff into the old ****.
When I'm on it. Tracked and wheeled vehicles seems too indifferent. Wheeled vehicles get stuck quite often in terrain, so you're careful with those. As you cannot simulate that, I simply suggest that you make wheeled vehicles slide more/less able to climb. Sad show Hades Peak or Fools Road
TOW is now seemingly a defensive/ambush tool, and no longer effective as a hold-down-defence weapon. It brings new challenges to the defence. More coordination and offensive defence. Maybe the TOW should be displaced from the rest of the defence.. I think you should give it time before adding 2 HATs per team to full servers, as some suggested.
Thanks a lot
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-14 20:35
by qs-racer
Interesting.
It can lead to allow again to have 2 HAT available per team.
One question for the APC, does the color mean the same than tanks : Green: Front armor, Blue: Side armor, Teal: Rear armor, Yellow: Top armor.
Because it is strange to have a BTR weak point on the front, and strong on the top.
No more weak point on the door ?
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-14 21:10
by Raklodder
It's getting warmer by the day!
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-14 21:34
by bandwevil
So, will there be any reason to use tank-launched ATGMs now (T90/Merkava)? AP now seems to be more damaging, faster, and less revealing, so I don't see why anybody would use it unless they manage to run out of AP.
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-14 21:38
by tobi-the-fraggel
Chuva_RD wrote:truly, german bias from german developer! Tandem RPG shot in the rear which can't kill a tank, this looks ridiculous
So it makes sense if both warheads have different penetration capabilities.
Again though, as much as this is PROJECT REALITY, it still is a game and the differents in penetration between the 2 warheads shouldn't be 18% imho even though that fits real life comparisons more or less. In the end though a shot to the rear should cause severe damage to all main battle tanks from all tandem warheads.
The gameplay will judge if it was wise to do that or not.
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-14 21:50
by piratepengu
Now I can rush a TOW fob without the chance of dying as long as I angle my armor right, but I can also get instakilled by 2 men with lats in a building behind me. I can't tell if it's a nerf or a buff ayy lmao
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-14 22:05
by CURRENT_YEAR
Horrifying change for defensive infantry. A stationary TOW launcher is a very exposed position already. It needs to be effective against enemy armor. A tank shouldn't be able to to roll up on a defended FOB just like that.
It's not like currently the defensive infantry positions dominate tanks. No. It's the already other way around. After this change it'll be 10x worse. A well set up defensive position would mean almost nothing then to enemy assets. Enemy tanks won't even have to wait for the CAS/area attack before rushing a well-built position.
While the change in armor system is great, the front armor is way too invulnerable. A much better idea would be to leave the front armor as protective as they are now, and make the side/top/rear armor weaker as in the update.
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-15 00:33
by Cavazos
Awesome!
CURRENT_YEAR wrote:Horrifying change for defensive infantry. A stationary TOW launcher is a very exposed position already. It needs to be effective against enemy armor. A tank shouldn't be able to to roll up on a defended FOB just like that.
It's not like currently the defensive infantry positions dominate tanks. No. It's the already other way around. After this change it'll be 10x worse. A well set up defensive position would mean almost nothing then to enemy assets. Enemy tanks won't even have to wait for the CAS/area attack before rushing a well-built position.
While the change in armor system is great, the front armor is way too invulnerable. A much better idea would be to leave the front armor as protective as they are now, and make the side/top/rear armor weaker as in the update.
In real war, you don't want to hit armor from the front. Defensive positions in which you can hit the enemies from the front are the least effective. A tank versus a TOW front to front means the TOW loses! That is the LAST thing you want! Who wants to be behind sandbags directly facing a FREAKING TANK?!
This is why you set up kill zones from the side for the defense. The "well set up positions of super FOBs" we have in-game if they were set up in real life, would be the easiest to take down and the defenders would have no clue what happened.
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-15 00:55
by piratepengu
Hey, that's pretty good!
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-15 02:23
by CURRENT_YEAR
'[TP wrote:Cavazos;2122085'] The "well set up positions of super FOBs" we have in-game if they were set up in real life, would be the easiest to take down and the defenders would have no clue what happened.
That already happens in the current version of the game without the TOW nerf.
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-15 03:16
by viirusiiseli
Just dropping this here before anyone claims tanks die from atgm to front IRL
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-15 03:35
by Rhino
viirusiiseli wrote:Just dropping this here before anyone claims tanks die from atgm to front IRL
There is a reason why many of the latest ATGMs like the Javelin have a "top down attack" mode, since it is easier to make a missile fly around the frontal armour than attempting to penetrate though it
Re: Tank armor changes
Posted: 2016-03-15 03:59
by tobi-the-fraggel
Well, the video shows clearly the tank crew is leaving the tank after the hit. Do you need a tank turret blowing off into the air to consider a tank dying??
Good to see details like an extra plate on the side classify that part as front armour. And you work on APCs/IFVs now so it matters where you hit/expose your vehicle. Great.
