Project Reality Forums

Tried it out last night, and it's really effective. I was checking where on the map they needed the strike, and my squadmate was using the program. Super accurate rounds in the air within 20 seconds.

gj

Does the tool read the game-files, or do you have to click where your mortars are located and such? 'Cause that would change things. I was under the impression you'd have to set your mortarposition yourself, and then click where you want a mortarstrike?

I thought you need to click yourself. So your saying than: Theres room for error, the user can click wrong?

cyberzomby wrote:But if I understand correctly this totally eliminates the need for a forward observer. All you need is a fire mission, you open the map, click where the contact report came in in the mortar calculator and input pin point accurate coordinates. Dont forget you can see the 252 meters instead of the 250 meters. You might as well enable the 3d marker than if people are allowed to use this program.

The program can't tell you whether the round hit the right area or not. For all you know the round hit the top of a building and isn't going to kill squat because the infantry is below.

And it's not going to gather this information itself, the user has to give it the data by hand.

As well as the height! No more going by experience/memory or adjustments called in by a man with eyes on target. Thats all not needed. Ofcourse you can have people checking out how your rounds land but the round will be that much more accurate by default because of this. Any external game program that makes a game mechanic easier is a form of cheating right? Any player that has not got this has a disadvantage. Just like a wallhack or aimbot.

In the sense of a "hack", this is most certainly not one. It does not play the game for you, it does not provide you with "unfair" information, and does not abuse bugs/glitches in the game.

In the sense of realism, mortar crews have access to this sort of information; maps with distance scale and contour data. You do too, in fact. In your PR files there are mini-maps and height maps that can be converted into a usable printout that would give you this same data.
If you were so inclined, you could work out the math yourself by hand using those printouts.

As for "any player without this is at a disadvantage"... Someone with a $10 mouse is at a disadvantage to people with $100 mice. This program is also freely available for the community. Trying to compare it that way isn't going to work well.



I am on the fence as to whether or not it is or isn't a "cheat", but my gut says "Nope, everything he used is readily available, he just put it in a pretty package."

Well, I never noticed someone with a better mouse killing me. But when someone in this thread says hes squadmate WITH the program had rounds in the air within 10 seconds while he was still calculating...

Also, info thats readily available: Height difference? Where do you find that available within the mortar calculating screen? I must have missed that information on my screen...

Using the printouts with your own calculator on the desk and a piece of paper would be a different thing all together. That would involve skill and like Afterdune calls this program: Hardcore attitude. It would amount to the same thing (better accuracy) but like I said, it requires a lot of effort first.

Your right about the first thing and I already said that earlier. Ofcourse you can still need a spotter to absolutely know the rounds hit.

This tool tells you height difference and actual distance. The developers JUST removed that ability from players... And now this tool gives it back.

For your last one: theres loads of things people within PR should have realism wise but dont have because its a game. Either because theres engine limits or more likely, the devs thought it would be better this way. Dont you think the R-DEV's could have build in a thing like this for mortar crews so they didnt had to alt-tab out of the game?

I know this is not a hack/cheat tool in the usual sense of the word. But if your still on the fence if it is one or not, its in a large enough grey area for me to call it that. Best thing is, I havent played PR since the release weekend and I'm getting worked up about this Still waiting on someone to prove me wrong with better arguments. Like I said, your first one is true, but height difference and actual distance to target is not something I can get from PR without alt-tabbing.

EDIT: SkyJumpy, I'm not flaming you or your skills. I certainly could never come up with something like this. Kudo's for that.

cyberzomby wrote:Like I said, your first one is true, but height difference and actual distance to target is not something I can get from PR without alt-tabbing.

Well, that's more of a limitation in PR than a feature for this tool. Acquiring topographic maps and extracting the data from it is both simple and essential in warfare. Not using this tool is "stupid" as trigonometry is so damn useful to direct fire, whether you count by paper or tool.

Frankly instead of limiting the usage of this tool (which is damn hard to enforce) a limitation of the mortars are a better idea (but that's another thread).

cyberzomby wrote:Well, I never noticed someone with a better mouse killing me. But when someone in this thread says hes squadmate WITH the program had rounds in the air within 10 seconds while he was still calculating...

Okay, but what is the difference to him being a real math whiz and can figure out those calculations similarly quickly in his head. Heck, he could even be only half-decent at math and has a calculator handy. I can't imagine reading a contour map would be very hard, either, tbh. Count the difference between you and target, multiply by step scale.

As for the "better mouse" thing, just keep going on that path. Someone with a lesser sound quality? At a disadvantage. Someone without a microphone? At a disadvantage. Someone with a computer that can't run PR above 20fps on low? Screwed.
It's irrational to compare this that way, because it's circumstantial.

And it was 20 seconds, not 10.

Also, info thats readily available: Height difference? Where do you find that available within the mortar calculating screen? I must have missed that information on my screen...

They are in files on your computer when you install PR.

Using the printouts with your own calculator on the desk and a piece of paper would be a different thing all together. That would involve skill and like Afterdune calls this program: Hardcore attitude. It would amount to the same thing (better accuracy) but like I said, it requires a lot of effort first.

But... it really doesn't require skill. You're plugging in numbers to a predetermined equation. With a calculator I could probably find the same data in near the same time. The effort involved in me plugging in those numbers is about as much as clicking the two locations on his program.

Your right about the first thing and I already said that earlier. Ofcourse you can still need a spotter to absolutely know the rounds hit. But this tool tells you height difference and actual distance. The developers JUST removed that ability from players... And now this tool gives it back.

I don't think height difference was ever available; pretty sure markers only gave you x-distance. The 3D-markers were removed primarily for their ability to allow helicopters to engage an area from beyond their line of sight. The entire point of the mortars is engaging an area from beyond the line of sight; they have a different intent behind their use.

For your last one: theres loads of things people within PR should have realism wise but dont have because its a game. Either because theres engine limits or more likely, the devs thought it would be better this way. Dont you think the R-DEV's could have build in a thing like this for mortar crews so they didnt had to alt-tab out of the game?

I'm not going to try to interpret the intention of the DEVs.

height difference and actual distance to target is not something I can get from PR without alt-tabbing.

Like I said, they're readily available in PR's files. You could print them out and use them.

I know this is not a hack/cheat tool in the usual sense of the word. But if your still on the fence if it is one or not, its in a large enough grey area for me to call it that.

I'd prefer if you didn't try to interpret my posts as a moral conundrum within me. I say I'm on the fence only due to the rising concerns of it being "cheating" to use this, because I'm trying to consider in what ways it is/isn't. Like I said, my gut instinct says it's not.

Guys.....You're killing it.

Enjoy it, don't debate it.

pfhatoa, indeed, this will be hard to control.

For the record, I thought this would be an interesting topic to get myself "worked up on" and discuss. So thats what I'm doing. Thats what a forum is for right?

Celestial , Ok, I'll give you the advantage argument. Although you could say that a program that is free is something else than hardware that costs money. Not everyone has the same job or the same amount of money. If you chose to spend 500 dollars instead of 250 you "earned" the advantage. Another reason why I like console games more because everyone has the same set-up

I meant on my PR screen without alt-tabbing in relation to the height. Its not really readilly available if I have to go in my folders WHILST playing the game. At least in my book as a (multimedia)designer it isnt.

And I wasnt trying to interpret or say what you should do. But I'm on the fence of this as well. Although my gut is telling me its WROOONG! <eric cartman voice I said, for me, if its calling all these questions I think its wrong.

nice work yo

Love this very much.

This software is awesome. But it could be more awesome. Maybe u can add the marker which can be added ingame by commander and sl, likewise for enemy fob's or HAT... And the possibility to drag the map and zoom would be cool. Also it would be awesome when u can add arrow markers or lines to discribe tactics. So it would more be a commander tool with a implyied mortar calculation programm.

Really, this would be awesome, when u can do this, i think many player would run this programm on a second computer or screen, like i already do.

ok, so I feel retarded cause im having a hard time using this, especially when im supposed to be studying java.

I open imageJ, open a map in it, and draw a line, then what?

open map and go plugins, macros, mortarcals.

THEN you start drawing lines and a new windows with mortar datas gonna open.
Btw how do i get the new map running here?

Hey, i think this is still working. Any development to come?

.97 map pack minimaps are missing.

I tried with Project Normandy as we might use this. Minimap is ok but how do i get heightmap and convert it to png format?

Anyone tried with new maps?

SkyJumpy wrote:in your pr-folder under levels -> *mapname* -> server.zip -> HeightmapPrimary.raw
you can open that in photoshop. (might need a special plugin though, not sure anymore)

you can get most info about heightmaps from this thread afaik: (2nd post)
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f388-pr-bf2-community-modding/31270-hud-topographical-minimaps.html

That explains where to find the heightmap. It's a raw, headerless grayscale image with 16-bit pixels in LSB (little-endian) byte order ("IBM machine type"). It is necessary to scale the heightmap to the same size as the minimap. The original dimensions are on the line starting "heightmap.setSize" in the HeightData.con file in the same zip file as the HeightmapPrimary.raw file. Save the scaled image as a 16-bit grayscale .png and copy it to the imagej-mortarcalc1.2\ImageJ\minimaps\heightmaps folder. When naming the file, follow the pattern of the other file names in that folder.

For example, I used this ImageMagick command to convert the Asad Khal heightmap to a .png.

convert -size 1025x1025 -depth 16 -endian LSB -colorspace Gray gray:"HeightmapPrimary.raw" -flip -filter cubic -resize 1024x1024 -depth 16 -type Grayscale 1km_1asad_khal_height.png

Anyway, I wonder what algorithm Battlefield 2 uses to scale the heightmap. Question for you, SkyJumpy: which image resize filter did you use to resize the heightmaps in Photoshop? I tried using all 4 options in the GIMP (None, Linear, Cubic, Sinc (Lanczos3)), but none of them produced identical results (based on an experiment with asad_khal). There are many pixels that are off by one or two, especially around slopes. Maybe this doesn't matter so much. Yet these seemingly small errors accumulate in the end.

Then you need to create the minimap by converting the .dds file in mapname\clients.zip\Hud\Minimap\InGame.dds to a .jpg and copying it to the mortarcalc1.2\ImageJ\minimaps folder. To accomplish this, I used WTV and took a screenshot on a large monitor, but there must be an easier way to do it. There are other options at the following website.

Legacy Texture Tools | NVIDIA Developer Zone

Finally, you need to add

if (gettitle == "MAPNAME") { heightscale = SCALE; } // replace MAPNAME and SCALE

to the appropriate part of StartupMacros.txt in ImageJ\macros. The scale is the second number in HeightData.con after heightmap.setScale.

SkyJumpy, you should copy these instructions into a README file in the mortar calculator download so that everyone will have them automatically. Please give me credit for writing them, of course.

Thanks for developing this mortar calculator! Hopefully we can keep improving and keep updating it as new maps are released.

I'm a bit confused. I opened a minimap in the ImageJ program, now I need to select a macro, correct? I'm just not sure which macro to select and how exactly to "select" it.

My 2 cents: Technically good work, gameplaywise a nightmare and almost cheating.

Anyone ever update this for new maps?

I have completed a PR:Normandy heightmap. You can download it here. The installation process is explained in the included readme.txt file.

http://home.comcast.net/~bandit_ace/mor ... aps_v2.zip

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bishop_smith2