Infantry weapon damage changes

[fecht_niko]

The AK was designed as an SMG to shit on the PPSH, you know?

The m16 was designed to shit on the m14, you know?


But this shouldnt lead into some wonna be realism discussion because the engine doesnt allow it AND MOST PLAYERS DONT WANT IT!

[solidfire93]

I had great fun playing La Drang yesterday, was just solo yoloing around the map, no need for comms or other squad members since my M14 outweighed any benefits they could bring. I could tell the enemies were really immersed when they tried attacking me with their funny AKs, SKSs, few Mosins (which I survived a hit to the chest from btw) and even a PPSH but they all fell after 1 shot each. They were probably discussing how cool, balanced and well thought out this new system is while giving up and spawning back only to face the same fate.

Needs more attention, quoted.

I Second that....

[Allahu Akbar]

How are either of those remotely positive? Those exact guns are what I'm talking about when I refer to the update "effectively removing multiple weapon-types from the game through obsolescence".

The Sniper kit in its current form is obsolete, there is now literally no reason to take a Sniper over an AR/Marksman when both have infinitely more killing potential than a bolt action rifle that takes two shots to kill.

There is also no reason to take a PPSH over a plain old AK now. Previously the PPSH was a relatively niche weapon strong in CQC but weaker at distance, acting as the perfect tool for a more aggressive, close quarters, role; a breacher. Now, without the realistic option of using this unique weapon to play in a different, more specialised, role, the breacher kit is essentially just a Rifleman that swapped out his ammo for some C4.

Diversity between viable weapons provides genuine depth to the game and allows for differing play-styles.

What's the point in having unique and diverse weapons available to different kits/factions if they are objectively worse than the standard?

That's exactly where you're wrong.

1. Sniper kit isn't simply for easy long range kills(and it still does it just fine if one aim for head/crotch area, depending on distance, with its perfect accuracy).
2. PPSH is still very much relevant with its massive magazine, the reason pistols are greatly nerfed is because you often can't kill someone with an entire mag of low-capacity ones(such as 1911 and Makarov) if they happened to hit the armour instead of head/limbs.
Face the facts, AKs have been nerfed at longer ranges too(7.62x39 does less damage, purely based on kinetic energy, than 5.56 somewhere around 200m despite actual physics and all calculated data points to the contrary) and thus keeping PPsh's old damage is just going to make its 7.62x39 alternative obsolete.
If you're only comparing ppsh damage to AK damage, it's fine.
If you're comparing them with opponent's fullauto 900rpm 5.56 weapons...they both suck.

SMG still work because conventional forces get them as PDWs(if you have a kit that has SMG then that's a huge hint that you shouldn't be running around front line like riflemen).
Where as previously they are basically CoD-player's choice.(since they are stuck in opfor team and generally can't have 900rpm 5.56 weapons)



Also, there is nothing wrong with rifleman who swapped out ammobag for C4/hook, that's how certain conventional faction's breachers(different name, same role) are. Last I checked, what makes unconventional force's "breacher" special is the grenade trap.

[Mouthpiece]

Literally nothing wrong:

Sniper/marksman rifle working as intended.

To be serious: it's quite sad to see the wrong people are showing some bias (with serious consequences).

[X-Alt]

xD

You've cried wolf so many times, pls nerf 5.56 900rpm, AT4, breacher kit, underpowered HAMAS. We get it kid, you're a redwhore who wants to run around with your rusty $20 Chinese AK and kill everybody.

Hop off that VPN and play another game, the third time isn't always a charm.

[Frontliner]

The AK was designed as an SMG to shit on the PPSH, you know?

The AK47 was designed reduce the amount of service weapons the Soviet Union had at the time, Mosin, Tokarev, PPSh, PPS-43, working off the experiences the troops made with the StG44 and the assault rifle concept the Wehrmacht was starting to introduce. That doesn't mean the AK is not without its drawbacks, it certainly lacks the accuracy of the rifles and the handling and ROF of the SMGs, but its selling point is that it has no real weaknesses and is especially combat effective on the most common combat range of 100-300ms. And that's the criticism we have, there is no real need to take the PPSh over an AK because of the way bullet damage works - the PPSh is disadvantaged in EVERY situation and that simply is not true to reality as you should be well aware of but pretend otherwise.

1. Sniper kit isn't simply for easy long range kills(and it still does it just fine if one aim for head/crotch area, depending on distance, with its perfect accuracy).

Sniping in PR isn't easy to be completely honest. Either you're so far away you have to be lucky your target a) doesn't move 1.2 seconds after you take the shot b ) moves in a predictable manner and you manage to adjust the lead correctly or c) isn't saved by deviation/hit reg/bullet drop. The only strength snipers had was the ability to oneshot, now that that's gone most snipers are utterly pointless, lol @7.62 snipers like the M24 SWS, having to either face unarmoured insurgents or basically shoot the target a point blank to one-shot. MEC's standard issue rifle is 5 times better, but hey, not like there was a point to giving bolt action rifles a damage bonus to balance them out(yes, THAT is balancing).

[X-Alt]

And that's the criticism we have, there is no real need to take the PPSh over an AK because of the way bullet damage works - the PPSh is disadvantaged in EVERY situation and that simply is not true to reality as you should be well aware of but pretend otherwise.

because it is

[Frontliner]

because it is

No.12344

[Vista]

Frontliner you're forgetting that in real LIFE the AK is moar powerful, so because PR is the ultimate military simulation, you're supposed to pick the AK over the PPSH EVERYTIME, as you would if you were part of the militia IRL.

It's important to base these decisions on real world data, since they make sure the game stays balanced 100%.

[fecht_niko]

because it is

If you come with the reality card, why do most players prefer the m14 over the m16 after the patch? Didnt the US replace the m14 because it was shit?

Again: Zwilling pls revert that change because IT DOESNT work in PR.

[Heavy Death]

Lol @ "Change the playstyle".

You pick the kits for the role, not playstyle. Go try bf4, cs or cod for such stuff. Kthxbb.

[Cpt.Future]

Literally nothing wrong:

1:31-1:36 2017 PR in a nutshell: Sprint, hip fire, kill in one shot

[FFG]

Lol @ "Change the playstyle".

You pick the kits for the role, not playstyle. Go try bf4, cs or cod for such stuff. Kthxbb.

But if you play like a mong, you deserve to get rekt.

[inb4banned]

Lol @ "Change the playstyle".

You pick the kits for the role, not playstyle. Go try bf4, cs or cod for such stuff. Kthxbb.

That's the same thing - different role, different playstyle.

[Allahu Akbar]

If you come with the reality card, why do most players prefer the m14 over the m16 after the patch? Didnt the US replace the m14 because it was shit?

Again: Zwilling pls revert that change because IT DOESNT work in PR.

M14 was shit.

http://looserounds.com/2015/01/30/the-m ... 14-legend/

Examination and testing of the 21 rifles uncovered the following:

All of the rifles from Winchester and H&R exhibited excessive headspace.

All of the rifles had loose handguards.

95% of the rifles had loose stock bands.

90% of the rifles had loose gas cylinders.

75% of the rifles had misaligned op rods and gas pistons.

50% of the rifles had loose op rod guides.

50% of the rifles had op rods that rubbed the stock.

Three rifles had barrels that exceed the maximum bore dimensions.

Only three rifles had an average bore diameter that fell below the accepted mean diameter.

One rifle was found to have a broken safety while another had a misassembled safety spring.

One rifle had a misassembled flash suppressor, which was actually contacting bullets during live fire tests.

(I guess the lucky rifle that didn't have all of the problems above are later called M21 )

This could be a way to "balance" M14, though; by giving it much higher minimum deviation.

You've cried wolf so many times, pls nerf 5.56 900rpm, AT4, breacher kit, underpowered HAMAS. We get it kid, you're a redwhore who wants to run around with your rusty $20 Chinese AK and kill everybody.

Hop off that VPN and play another game, the third time isn't always a charm.

I? VPN?

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f255-i ... 9-rpm.html

Seems you're the one crying when all evidence is stacked against you.

Not sure what you are on about AT-4 but breacher isn't nerfed if you compare it to kits with AK(most factions have breacher with almost exact same primary weapon as riflemen anyway). If you're the COD player then too fucking bad you are playing the wrong game.

The AK47 was designed reduce the amount of service weapons the Soviet Union had at the time, Mosin, Tokarev, PPSh, PPS-43, working off the experiences the troops made with the StG44 and the assault rifle concept the Wehrmacht was starting to introduce. That doesn't mean the AK is not without its drawbacks, it certainly lacks the accuracy of the rifles and the handling and ROF of the SMGs, but its selling point is that it has no real weaknesses and is especially combat effective on the most common combat range of 100-300ms. And that's the criticism we have, there is no real need to take the PPSh over an AK because of the way bullet damage works - the PPSh is disadvantaged in EVERY situation and that simply is not true to reality as you should be well aware of but pretend otherwise.



Sniping in PR isn't easy to be completely honest. Either you're so far away you have to be lucky your target a) doesn't move 1.2 seconds after you take the shot b ) moves in a predictable manner and you manage to adjust the lead correctly or c) isn't saved by deviation/hit reg/bullet drop. The only strength snipers had was the ability to oneshot, now that that's gone most snipers are utterly pointless, lol @7.62 snipers like the M24 SWS, having to either face unarmoured insurgents or basically shoot the target a point blank to one-shot. MEC's standard issue rifle is 5 times better, but hey, not like there was a point to giving bolt action rifles a damage bonus to balance them out(yes, THAT is balancing).

PPsh still has handling of SMG, high rate of fire (you may be able to drop someone with two shots in close range with AK and PPsh needs maybe 4, but PPsh can do it more accurately due to recoil and lower bloom in combination with 900rpm factor) and massive ammo capacity (so it can suppress rather well too).


The vast majority of time a sniper shouldn't even be firing; against stationary targets like someone on a TOW or firing deployed weapons, it's fine.

There is no deviation if you let it settle properly, nor bullet drop within 400m, and hitreg issue isn't affected by damage change. Last I checked it was 8 seconds to settle fully after movement and 4 seconds after shooting.

If you just want to kill some people at long range then Marksman kit is there for that.

[X-Alt]

M14 was shit.

The M14, Not Much For Fighting ( A Case Against The M14 Legend ) ? LooseRounds.com


(I guess the lucky rifle that didn't have all of the problems above are later called M21 )

This could be a way to "balance" M14, though; by giving it much higher minimum deviation.

I? VPN?

Another armchair(man) general account.

shit source by the way

[DogACTUAL]

Literally nothing wrong:

Glad you finally found a match with 90% of tards in the opposing team to 'proof' your point. Anecdotal evidence at its best, even the typical quick cut montage is there to remove any context. It really rivals the supposed 'video proof' of shotguns being OP in its misleading nature that was posted some time ago.

You do realize that more than 80% of those kills would have been guaranteed even with the previous system?

You do realize that you being able to mow down those enemies had barely anything to do with the increased dmg, but all to do with their total lack of situational awareness and inability to locate you or even be aware that they are getting fired upon?

Your video just reminds me of some videos viirus made way before the dmg changes where he humiliates tards without any combat awareness and keeps farming kills. Those things will always be possible if you have a lacking opponent.

@solidfire

like this guy ? Warning : Graphic vid (combat footage)

That was my whole point! For every guy that gets stopped by one round there is one that shruggs off 3 of those. There are a lot of other videos out there of guys getting hit once or even multiple times without going down! Search for them if you don't believe me, i am not going to do your work for you.

Like i said it depends, sometimes one hit does it and sometimes multiple ones are needed.

For the guys saying sniper rifles are shit now:

True to a certain extent, but they still have one great advantage over marksman rifles and that is their way superior accuracy/MOA which guarentess that you will atleast hit your target in most cases. That's why they are still excellent at keeping the enemies heads down or making them abandon the TOW/AA emplacement. If you are out for kills (not a thing you should be ashamed of imo) then of course they mostly suck now. I played a few round with the 7.62x51 sniper rifles and got really angry because it was almost impossible to get any kills.

But remember we still have quite a few heavy hitters in the sortiment for quite a lot of factions:

-GER: G22 chambered .300 Win. Mag. i tested it and it seems to be a one hit against body armour at up to about 100m distance, after that it takes 2 hits.

-CA: Timberwolf chambered .338 Lapua Magnum one hit takedown against body armour at basically any distance.

-NL: AWM .338 Lapua Magnum same as before.

-GB L115 .338 Lapua Magnum same as before.

So i guess it's a mixed bag, atleast we still have to big boys to look forward to.
What i like about it is that it elevates the bigger sniper cartridges and makes them stand out as special when before you didn't even notice any difference compared to the normal ones.

For the guys saying the M14 is shit IRL:

Many people IRL still prefer the M14 over the M16 in a load of situations, it always depends on the conditions.
IIRC the M16 was adopted because it was the right tool for the job at that time with the jungle combat and all and to save resources and reduce weight. Dont't quote me on that though because i didn't want to look it up right now to confirm, but that's how i remember it.

Weapons just have different strenghts and weaknesses, depending what their role is, even IRL their is something like 'balance'. For the same reason i have to agree that the PPSH and other SMGs are too weak now, they are supposed to be superior in CQB compared to assault and battle rifles while lacking medium and long range effectiveness.

In that regard you are totally right, overall KE doesn't equal stopping power!

[tankninja1]

The changes actually make insurgency really terrible for insurgents. The insurgents have to use rubber bullets while the BLUFOR forces can just sponge bullets like crazy. Seriously, and insurgent firearms that are not .308 or a machine gun is just useless. The Iraqi insurgents are just the worst because their weapons are half bolt actions, shotgun, and pistols.

[DogACTUAL]

While i despise the hyperbole of the nerfer zealots in this thread, i understand their concerns and they make some good points especially about CQB weapons like shotguns, pistols and SMGs.

I think the problem is not the unified damage across different weapons with the same cartridge, i think that is a good change that will become more nuanced when effects of different barrel lenghts and ammo types are taken into account. And it is totally logical and is not standing in the way of balance.

I think the real problem that caused all this outrage (in some cases justified) by the nerfer zealots is that the dmg values were based solely on kinetic energy levels of the different cartridges rather than assigning them values based on their stopping power and terminal ballistics at different distances.

I think once the DEVs take stopping power and terminal ballistics into account, especially that of the shotguns, pistols and SMGs, and combine that with the kinetic energy data we will get much better balance.
IRL pistol cartridges have their place in CQB combat where they outperform other cartridges in certain aspects. Once that is represented ingame the balance will become much better.

In any case, i think there can be no argument made against unified dmg values across weapons with the same cartridge, once the other factors are included.

[Ferdinand_Amadeus]