Infantry weapon damage changes

[X-Alt]

There is a counter.

Devs can buff blufor massively and all INS(not counting AAS...etc. of course) has to do is just not spawn in, ever, until timer runs out.

eggs dee

[DogACTUAL]

don't take it personally !

Oh, but i do in fact take it personal like any person would, how could i not since this is personally addressed to me lol!

After watching that cringeworthy video you linked i have to ask you to give me specific examples of what exactly i was misinformed about in your opinion.

Was it that i said that not every person will automatically drop to the ground immediately when being hit in the abdomen by 7.62x51? I don't want to burst your bubble, but that is true my friend, there are a lot of examples of that happening.

Please tell me, what other stuff was i misinformed about in your opinion?

[Allahu Akbar]

The only and most unbiased way to actually determine if these changes broke the balance would be to look at the whole metadata of all the rounds that were played and see how much the overall W/L and K/D ratio for the factions on certain maps has changed from before the update.

No, that's not how it works.

The problem here is that we don't have a personal stat tracking system(even that isn't exactly accurate), so if you only look at W/L ratio of each side then you will find that it's heavily skewed by stacks of new players and not-new players...etc.
As for K/D ratio...which K/D ratio will you look at? The one on end results(which doesn't include players who dropped out of game due to CTD or other reasons) or is there an internal record for everyone who played in that match?

If you're waiting for there to be enough games/players to be sampled then it would be too late.

[tankninja1]

While i despise the hyperbole of the nerfer zealots in this thread, i understand their concerns and they make some good points especially about CQB weapons like shotguns, pistols and SMGs.

I really is more than that, playing Insurgency just makes me want to gouge out my eyes now. Every little thing is basically a death sentence to Insurgents unless they happen to be right next to the cashe. It doesn't help Insurgent medic weapons tend to be useless because bolt actions no longer one hit kill and pistol calibers are pointless, and its not as though the Škorpion was particularly good before the damage changes.

In conjunction with the omnipresent hit detection issues, the damage changes have made everything so much more annoying especially at really close ranges.

If they wanted to make weapon handling changes they should've just gone back to the pre-1.0 weapon handling with more annoying weapon deviation and, for the most part, more recoil.

[schakal811]

I just copy pasta my post xd

The only and most unbiased way to actually determine if these changes broke the balance would be to look at the whole metadata and see how much the overall W/L and K/D ratio for the factions on certain maps has changed.

Metadata wont have much significance imo, cause you never have two equal skilled teams fighitng each other. For example in the tournament people did lot of agreements cause maps/assets wernt balanced. Also we need 1 million player more and we need to add a competitve ranked system where we can track everything. MAYBE then we can use metadata to balance.

[DogACTUAL]

I didn't reply to your post because it didn't make any sense.

Do you understand the concept of statistics? Do you understand that if you take the data of all games ever played since the update and compare it to the data before the update it doesn't matter if in a few (or even all) matches the teams were unbalanced skillwise, because those things happened basically with the same probability before the update.

That's the whole point of combining all the data to get the average, to make sure extraordinary rounds with unbalanced teams don't skew the results.

What you are doing is the exact opposite, you cherry pick one round with unbalanced teams skillwise and then use that one sample to conclude that the changes broke the game balance.

From a recent post made by eggman:

Aside from the build processes, Fritz set up some data tracking capabilities. Things like # concurrent players, # players 30 days, # players per map, etc. This enabled us to pay close attention to quantitative data as well as the qualitative feedback from the community. People would say "you've ruined the mod" with changes we made. I could look at the data and know that more people were playing, for longer, than ever before. Along with asking myself "Do I still liked playing this?", we could make data-informed decisions on what was working and not working.

While he is talking about only monitoring player counts, PR has come a long way with all the trackers so i reckon it should be possible to get a lot more data.

[Allahu Akbar]

I didn't reply to your post because it didn't make any sense.

Do you understand the concept of statistics? Do you understand that if you take the data of all games ever played since the update and compare it to the data before the update it doesn't matter if in a few (or even all) matches the teams were unbalanced skillwise, because those things happened basically with the same probability before the update.

Do you understand that the number of samples of "all games ever played" since the update is a lot less than number for data before the update?
Whatever result you can get from that would not be anywhere close to being good enough, no better than cherrypicking one round.

From a recent post made by eggman:


While he is talking about only monitoring player counts, PR has come a long way with all the trackers so i reckon it should be possible to get a lot more data.

More people playing PR when new patch comes out? What a surprise...

[X-Alt]

More people playing PR when new patch comes out? What a surprise...

Especially those who should've left forever.

[Allahu Akbar]

Especially those who should've left forever.

Like you? Should have left in 2013 when you got banned.

[Mineral]

If the both of you can't drop this yourselves we will assist you with some timeouts in the corner. Behave please.

[solidfire93]

Was it that i said that not every person will automatically drop to the ground immediately when being hit in the abdomen by 7.62x51? I don't want to burst your bubble, but that is true my friend, there are a lot of examples of that happening.

ok show me a vid or anything of someone who got shot at 10m away by an M40 sniper.... i talk about IRL stuff here cause that what the DEV want from this game... which is doesn't work sometimes....

i know that you like the new system and tbh i don't mind it too.... but Randomness is bad for a game when it's unexpected all the time.... it's not like playing Battlefield when you know where are the enemy's coming from....(3D spot AKA DICE wallhack)

the old system was balanced, when 1.3.5 came out Infy gameplay was at it's best... no issue and fun every where....

[Acecombatzer0]

1. Bring back the old system, please, just my opinion, I haven't played PR since it was implemented

2. Too many "military experts" in this thread, you know who you are... stop

That is all

[Allahu Akbar]

Gun talk between people who don't know guns?

If you included the one who implemented the change, yes.

[Kingy]

The golden rule for all things in life:

It it ain't broken - don't fuck it up.

Shotguns and pistols in particular are utterly worthless now, and while I might thank you for giving the two fingered salute to snipers it just doesn't make up for it.

[Vista]

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f255-i ... ystem.html

[Allahu Akbar]

Shotguns and pistols in particular are utterly worthless now, and while I might thank you for giving the two fingered salute to snipers it just doesn't make up for it.

As they should be, against armored targets.

[Kingy]

That would depend on whether or not you like to play a game or make believe your in a warzone. Personally I like to think that the shotgun is useful for more than just opening doorways and arresting civilians. But then again I like to play this game because its fun, not because I have a hard-on for mil-sim.

The shotgun used to be so much fun to shoot people with.

[Bonecrusher76]

As they should be, against armored targets.

1. Armor that stops one 5.56 or 7.62 round will generally stop multiple. So we should just go ahead and make all chest shots on all armored targets with any round do zero damage. That's right, absolutely zero damage, because that is what is ACTUALLY realistic.

2. Show me an example of a real life medic patching a headshot to 100% in fifteen seconds.

3. How is respawning realistic?

PR should be balanced such that players ACT realistically, the real world damage of the rounds means nothing if players don't act realistically.


The 7.62 sniper rifle is absolute garbage now. Such garbage that enemies run around in open areas with no fear of snipers. This is not realistic behavior. Snipers have been immensely feared in every modern infantry conflict. No modern sniper is ever going to go into a conflict expecting to aim for the legs and fire twelve rounds because the enemy medic keeps passing out band-aids.


Tell me how an enemy HAT taking three sniper shots, getting healed by a medic, taking three more shots, getting healed again, and then taking a headshot, and getting "revived" is "REALISTIC"!

All of the people complaining about the OP sniper rifle don't understand how difficult it really was to be a GOOD sniper in PR. Everyone always liked to bash it, but it took tactics and skill to be worth anything.

The damage system was just fine before. Buff the 7.62 battle rifle rounds a little bit to give them a purpose over 5.56, and leave everything else as it was.

[Allahu Akbar]

1. Armor that stops one 5.56 or 7.62 round will generally stop multiple. So we should just go ahead and make all chest shots on all armored targets with any round do zero damage. That's right, absolutely zero damage, because that is what is ACTUALLY realistic.

2. Show me an example of a real life medic patching a headshot to 100% in fifteen seconds.

3. How is respawning realistic?

PR should be balanced such that players ACT realistically, the real world damage of the rounds means nothing if players don't act realistically.


The 7.62 sniper rifle is absolute garbage now. Such garbage that enemies run around in open areas with no fear of snipers. This is not realistic behavior. Snipers have been immensely feared in every modern infantry conflict. No modern sniper is ever going to go into a conflict expecting to aim for the legs and fire twelve rounds because the enemy medic keeps passing out band-aids.


Tell me how an enemy HAT taking three sniper shots, getting healed by a medic, taking three more shots, getting healed again, and then taking a headshot, and getting "revived" is "REALISTIC"!

All of the people complaining about the OP sniper rifle don't understand how difficult it really was to be a GOOD sniper in PR. Everyone always liked to bash it, but it took tactics and skill to be worth anything.

The damage system was just fine before. Buff the 7.62 battle rifle rounds a little bit to give them a purpose over 5.56, and leave everything else as it was.

1. a round being stopped by armour doesn't mean zero damage is caused.
Also how many armor can stop depends on whether it's ceramic or solid metal plate, thickness...etc.

2. Don't have to, a shot to the head could easily have been grazing the chin a little.

3. You don't have to respawn, you can just quit the game. (plus one life event)
Regular respawning represents new reinforcements.

Running around in the open is just as bad as before... people still die in 2-3 shots to 5.56 and 1 shot black and white from 7.62x51(against armored targets, aim for ****).
If you want to fix "running around in the open" then you need to fix player turn rate limit(because it's easy to take advantage of lag to run zig-zag pattern for avoiding shots).

"No modern sniper" do you mean modern conventional military sniper or what?
Because I'm sure irregular forces have been fighting against bodyarmor-wearing militaries for a long time.
I'm sure an actual sniper would know where to shoot(such as head) to wound someone most effectively when target is wearing hard bodyarmor.

Tell me how shooting someone in the toe/finger with a 7.62 and killing him in one shot is "realistic."
See, anyone can play that game.

Don't need to be good with perfect accuracy + no drop out to 400m. And GOOD snipers don't need to rely on their rifle to one-hit anywhere on body. (despite the fact that the likes of .338 still do)
If you aren't good then marksman rifle will make up for your lack of precision.

If you straight up kill someone, it's as easy as dropping a rally and roughly 60s for him to keep moving with his squad; if you black and white him, he will take a lot longer to heal up.

The damage system wasn't "fine" before either. (last I remembered, 4 pistol round to solid body armor will down someone before these recent changes)