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Please let us know when the [Maps] PR v0.957 Map Overviews will be ready.

Very nice patch but it says that you have about 30 seconds to drop kit taken from enemy. Sometimes it says "try again later" when trying to drop kit so now if it says that it's gonna kill you? :O

tatne wrote:Very nice patch but it says that you have about 30 seconds to drop kit taken from enemy. Sometimes it says "try again later" when trying to drop kit so now if it says that it's gonna kill you? :O

You only get that message after trying to drop your current kit a couple of times. If you pick up an enemy kit which you shouldn't use, you get that message - and the kit your just dropped should still be there, so there's nothing to worry about. It's not like there is no other kit around.

mat552 wrote:Unfortunately you just posted a perfect example of why forcing pilots to enter visual range to release with a lock is a bad idea. Had he released that weapon at 1000+ like normal, the weapon wouldn't have had to suddenly behave like a missile to hit the target.

Instead, he released the weapon at a perpendicular angle, then locked, forcing the bomb to develop rocket engines and guidance fins to hit the target as expected.

I wonder if we'll see more of these 'magic missiles' now that we have to go back to vBF2 bombing.

Like I said earlier in the thread- the solution to the problem where bombs suddenly turn into missiles is to reduce their turning speed when they see a laser.

That way, if a pilot drops a bomb too early/late, the bomb will miss. Even if it was dropped from way beyond visual range or in the general direction, it would miss because it wouldn't have enough time to turn before hitting the ground.

To me that sounds like a more logical change than forcing jets to bomb like vbf2, wouldn't you say, devs?

It won't be like vbf2 as you can still bomb at high altitudes and it's actually required as the bombs have a 3 seconds arming delay. If you drop them too close, it won't detonate.

The only difference is that you will be in visual range of AA systems.

So..what?

It sounds like there's now a pretty narrow window to pickle in.
You have to be at least 3 seconds flight away from target, but able to see target, which is anywhere from 5 to 10 seconds, depending on the map and speed. Including the dive in and pull out, sounds like we'll be exposed for around 15-45 seconds per run.

I'm going to be reloading flares after each run now, if my numbers are right (?) this significantly cuts down on the support an aircraft will be able to provide.

Unless I've misunderstood and I can still pickle from 3000+, wait a few seconds for the bomb to fall, then dive in, establish lock to give the bomb guidance, then gtfo. That's 5-25 seconds of exposure, much more survivable and allows for two such runs in one flight.

My understanding was that you now have to release the weapon with a lock already established, otherwise it will not track.

Who said you need to dive?

It's a really, really bad idea not to?

Perhaps in real life where I can sit comfortably at altitude above handheld AA or .50 fire I don't need to.

In PR? Gotta dive to ensure the bomb behaves somewhat as intended, as well as to build up energy for the climb out and maneuvers to avoid anti aircraft fire.

Flying straight and level in PR is a good way to die, either from AA, Air to Air, or just running out of bounds.

Well, you will figure something out.

Either way, dropping bombs out of range of AA wasn't realistic to begin with, so this was addressed and jets having a harder time and being more afraid of AA is not a bad thing.

Ah yes, "Jet pilots have it so easy, let's make their lives harder" I almost felt I was entering into a reasonable conversation there, whoops.

In other news, seeding furiously, and greatly enthused for the german forces now that I'm taking a closer look.

[R-DEV]dbzao wrote:Well, you will figure something out.

Either way, dropping bombs out of range of AA wasn't realistic to begin with, so this was addressed and jets having a harder time and being more afraid of AA is not a bad thing.

I Maybe very wrong here. But is it not the point of recon teams in real life to go in to nasty places and lazing/painting/target spotting just so the jets can drop bombs from very long ranges away from all Anti-air threats?

Making life hard for jet pilots in the mod is not funny. We find it hard enough to get a laze some rounds. Now you seem to want to make it even harder with added risk. I Think somebody got a bomb on there head one to many times lol.

I Just hope the A-10 and the SU-25 got a speed buff. They will need it.

See it as a challenge, to show us how badass you all are.

I don't know why I entered this jet discussion, this is such a minor thing, you guys got spoiled by a bug and are now complaining when we removed it.

For the scope of PR's air warfare, AAVs and stationary emplacements should have much bigger range, as well as the jets, but there's a gamey thing called fog that limits all of that, so it wasn't fair when jets could engage out of range, and AAs couldn't do the same. That's it.

Before you cast the doom of PR jet warfare, let's see how it plays out.

Oddsodz wrote:I Maybe very wrong here. But is it not the point of recon teams in real life to go in to nasty places and lazing/painting/target spotting just so the jets can drop bombs from very long ranges away from all Anti-air threats?

Making life hard for jet pilots in the mod is not funny. We find it hard enough to get a laze some rounds. Now you seem to want to make it even harder with added risk. I Think somebody got a bomb on there head one to many times lol.

I Just hope the A-10 and the SU-25 got a speed buff. They will need it.

Yes, it's really unfair that jets are no longer immune to AA.

Oh I know, I am in full on "OMG" forum alert level posting mode lol.

I Will ask one thing. Has the mobile anti-air vehicle been made a 2 man job yet?

A bug? What bug? The one where missiles are instantly at full acceleration/top speed, giving no chance to escape? The bug where snapshots are more effective than taking your time, doubly so for AA?

If you're trying to paint the bomb locking on from any range as a bug, spoilers, the enemy can exploit it too. Counter lazing was a real and valid strategy, one frequently practiced by crafty squadleaders to both kick players for teamkilling and paint them as terrible noobs when they return.

Also, I pride myself on not trying to be a "badass", because I don't think I've ever met another player who would consider me a "badass". They usually call having an inflated sense of self worth based on the asset I am currently in command of being a "prick".

Jet warfare isn't doomed btw, I just enjoy engaging in heated discussions (and I'm trying to be civil! ). It is a challenge to keep trying to fly, patch after patch, the hurdle being raised higher and higher.

Edit: Farks, we've never been immune to AA. AA is absolutely lethal, which is why we stopped flying like nubbinz straight out of vBF2. Except when we use rocket pods. And TV missiles. And cannon runs.

Come to think of it, bombs are the only weapons which we could use BVR in jets.

Oh the joys of "Counter lazing". And from what I can tell. It should still be able to do That is one trick I really should have kept to myself. Came round to bite me in the bum in PRT C6 lol.

Oddsodz wrote:Oh I know, I am in full on "OMG" forum alert level posting mode lol.

I Will ask one thing. Has the mobile anti-air vehicle been made a 2 man job yet?

Yes, back in 0.85.

Farks wrote:Yes, back in 0.85.

What? I think you maybe missing something.

As of right now. You can still solo a an AAv. Not sure about 0.957

But you can solo them if you went and played right now.

What you can do is get three people, get them crewman kits.
Get two people into one AAV, activate the gun.
One person gets out.
Get two people into a second AAV, activate the gun.
Other person gets out.
Third squaddie is free to go do whatever, and you have two onemanned AAVs. Since they just camp anyways, it's a simple matter to drive to your destination, hop back into the gun and turn into an emplaced AA. As long as you don't get out, the vehicle won't kill you for onemanning. (not that you NEED three people or two aavs, it's just my experience they work in tandem, especially the avengers and their absurd .50s)

Also, oddz, the only way counter lazing works is if you can confuse the pilot. Now that bombs can't be BVR'd, the pilot will have a precise point to come in on, making it extremely hard to counterlaze.

mat552 wrote:What you can do is get three people, get them crewman kits.
Get two people into one AAV, activate the gun.
One person gets out.
Get two people into a second AAV, activate the gun.
Other person gets out.
Third squaddie is free to go do whatever, and you have two onemanned AAVs. Since they just camp anyways, it's a simple matter to drive to your destination, hop back into the gun and turn into an emplaced AA. As long as you don't get out, the vehicle won't kill you for onemanning. (not that you NEED three people or two aavs, it's just my experience they work in tandem, especially the avengers and their absurd .50s)

Very wrong. Right now. I Can jump into any AAv and drive off. Get to where I want. Switch seats. Look up. Kill something. I Need no team work to use an AAv at this time.

As for counter lazing. There will not be much change. In fact it may just be a bit easyer now. as you will for sure know when a bomb is on the way. You will see hear the Jet and can spam a lazer box out. (You do know that you don't have to "Look/Zoom" to fire a lazer box Think of it as an unscoped shot )