=HOG=Hardcore Gaming *Official Feedback Thread*

[Rusty_42]

What have you changed?
How regular players supposed to know about that? I've checked your rules page, nothing about exceptions in section 4.

[2IC]

> If the request is to consider adding Adak to the exceptions list, I can bring that to the discussions with other head admins.

> Yes, please.

> Will do.


What do you think? What does 1+1 equal?

Do you expect me to believe you can't read?
This is what I mean by constructive intentions.



> How regular players supposed to know about that?

Your expectation for information availability is valid.

However, there's a reason we're not listing exceptions.
We're not going to publish a convenient list for DOD/main campers to exploit.
Not as long as the DOD boundaries remain as they are in certain maps.

[Genitals]

https://www.hogclangaming.com/index.php ... ban-appeal

Are you ever going to respond to my friend's ban appeal in a transparent manner? Sorry but "no its perm" with no reason stated doesn't cut it. He genuinely doesn't know why he's banned and it's nearing a month past the date of initial appeal.

As a reminder, below are the terms a server licensee agrees to in order to host a PR server.



I don't see how your treatment of this player is either fair or timely. The secrecy surrounding the ban also suggests discrimination, but I welcome an opportunity to be proven wrong.

[LarsSantiago]

Hi i am the player genitals is referring to above.

I've been banned for about 2 years, perhaps longer for a statement i made in a private admin chat on the fcv discord that was leaked to hog admins. I would be happy to show you my message as its hardly incriminating and its ridiculous that an adult would ban someone over it.

i was a senior admin for fcv in the past, i was banned, and have been banned for years clearly in response for being a senior admin there. Simply because we were a competing NA server.



Is this just going to be ignored?
Not worth the time to look into or respond to us?
I have been a moderator since prta NA, have been a member of this community for about a decade, and im now blacklisted from playing on the only NA server left over this.
I would just like to be unbanned to play with my friends.

Thanks.

[2IC]

Hi i am the player genitals is referring to above.
I've been banned for about 2 years, perhaps longer for a statement i made in a private admin chat on the fcv discord that was leaked to hog admins. I would be happy to show you my message as its hardly incriminating and its ridiculous that an adult would ban someone over it.
i was a senior admin for fcv in the past, i was banned, and have been banned for years clearly in response for being a senior admin there. Simply because we were a competing NA server.
Is this just going to be ignored?
Not worth the time to look into or respond to us?
I have been a moderator since prta NA, have been a member of this community for about a decade, and im now blacklisted from playing on the only NA server left over this.
I would just like to be unbanned to play with my friends.
Thanks.

You were given the response you deserve already.

No, you were not banned "clearly in response for being a senior admin there" or "simply because we were a competing NA server".

I quote from you directly: "Most of PR is NA and EU, so we decided to do New York to try and kill HOG better".

You set up a competing NA server with the explicit intent to kill off our server, stole our internal information, and began poaching our admins for your own server.

We do not allow in people who have proven their intent and ability to material harm to our server.

Let me make this clear once more since it's clearly not getting to you: You are permanently banned from the HOG server. Forever. No appeal. No reconsideration.

[Max_]

You were given the response you deserve already.

No, you were not banned "clearly in response for being a senior admin there" or "simply because we were a competing NA server".

I quote from you directly: "Most of PR is NA and EU, so we decided to do New York to try and kill HOG better".

You set up a competing NA server with the explicit intent to kill off our server, stole our internal information, and began poaching our admins for your own server.

We do not allow in people who have proven their intent and ability to material harm to our server.

Let me make this clear once more since it's clearly not getting to you: You are permanently banned from the HOG server. Forever. No appeal. No reconsideration.

Removing my DEV hat here.

As someone who had HOG admin access back on the FCV 2.0 days your internal chat wasn't great either when it came to banning multiple members and FCV never banned your members over it. It's been almost 3 years, move on.

Then y'all wonders why there are so many servers poping up over the years with the sole purpose to be an alternative to the HOG way of admining. Then plays the victim every time one of them is temporally successful.

[2IC]

Removing my DEV hat here.
As someone who had HOG admin access back on the FCV 2.0 days your internal chat wasn't great either when it came to banning multiple members and FCV never banned your members over it. It's been almost 3 years, move on.
Then y'all wonders why there are so many servers poping up over the years with the sole purpose to be an alternative to the HOG way of admining. Then plays the victim every time one of them is temporally successful.

As someone who had HOG admin access back on the FCV 2.0 days your internal chat wasn't great either
I wonder why the person who was banned along with the abovementioned person would say this.


when it came to banning multiple members and FCV never banned your members over it.
That's up to FCV. FCV policy doesn't inform our policy.
And also, I'm not aware of any case in which a HOG member admin tried to steal internal information or poach admins from the FCV server.
But do illuminate, since I wasn't there at the time.

Then y'all wonders why there are so many servers poping up over the years with the sole purpose to be an alternative to the HOG way of admining.
We have no problem co-existing with other servers.
That's what we did all through the years.
If you can't see how what happened between FCV and HOG during the time period in question is qualitatively different from the relationships HOG had with other servers who didn't set the explicit goal of killing us off or steal from us, I don't even know what to tell you.

Then plays the victim every time one of them is temporally successful.
In what way did we play the victim in this scenario?
Is it "playing victim" to state what happened?
Is it "playing victim" to deal with someone who violated trust we gave him, in a manner we see fit?
Is it "playing victim" to responding to the person asking for an explanation because clearly previous explanations weren't getting through to him?

It's been almost 3 years, move on.
We don't tell you what to do as R-DEV or as a head admin of another, competing server.
Don't tell us what to do.

[Max_]

Sure.

We don't tell you what to do as R-DEV or as a head admin of another, competing server.

DoDs

[2IC]

Sure.

We don't tell you what to do as R-DEV or as a head admin of another, competing server.

DoDs

I assume you mean the discussion on our DOD rules above.


"1. Please, explain how is it fair.
2. List exceptions of 'Section 4: STAGING AREAS/DOD'. "

"You present the problem here.
Yet you have the solution.
Change the DOD if you want.
You have that power, not me."

"Ok.
Please, don't set Adak on your server. That's my personal request as a mapper."

"Sorry, no.
I'm not trying to be rude, but that request is unreasonable.
We're not going stop setting a map because you have an issue with our DOD rules.
You could remove the map if you want.
I personally wouldn't want that cos I like Adak, but it's a DEV decision.
Or you could adjust the DOD boundaries."


Do point out where I told a R-DEV (or more specifically you) what to do.
Is it "telling the R-DEVs what to do" if I remind a R-DEV that R-DEVs have the power to change DOD boundaries, not me?
Is it "telling the R-DEVs what to do" if I remind a R-DEV that R-DEVs have the power to remove a map, not me?

Did I raise this DOD issue to the R-DEVs originally?
Did I tell Rusty, Outlawz or you to "move on" when this DOD issue was raised?
Did I not reply to every reply that Rusty left for my previous reply? Did I tell him to "move on"?


More importantly, why the deflection to an unrelated matter?
How is the above situation applicable to what we're talking about here?

If you're not interested in responding to the counter-points I raised to your original points, what exactly are you trying to do here besides trying to prove I'm wrong?

And what exactly would that even achieve?
It's pointless to discuss this here or with you.
I only gave a response to the abovementioned person to conclude the matter once and for all.

You are not some disinterested third party here, whether or not you put down the R-DEV hat temporarily.
You telling us to move on after you were banned for the same reason as the abovementioned person (in addition to being a head admin for a server in active competition with our server), I can only watch the audacity in awe.

If you can't understand why we won't forgive someone who betrayed our trust, stole us from us, and tried to undermine us, that says more about you than us.

[LarsSantiago]

You were given the response you deserve already.

No, you were not banned "clearly in response for being a senior admin there" or "simply because we were a competing NA server".

I quote from you directly: "Most of PR is NA and EU, so we decided to do New York to try and kill HOG better".

You set up a competing NA server with the explicit intent to kill off our server, stole our internal information, and began poaching our admins for your own server.

We do not allow in people who have proven their intent and ability to material harm to our server.

Let me make this clear once more since it's clearly not getting to you: You are permanently banned from the HOG server. Forever. No appeal. No reconsideration.

You're literally admitting that you've banned me for being a part of a competing server.

You are clearly abusing your status as a moderator on hog to remove people that see as a threat, you cant handle competition.

The discord message that you're desperately clinging on to is hilariously paper thin and you're delusional if you think that's some kind of concrete evidence.
Im not sure im the one stealing internal information here when you've banned me over FCV internal information. The Admin chat that we did not give you access to.

[Chefmoto]

What “internal information” did Lars steal? You have any evidence to back up that claim?
Pretty rich considering you literally banned him for a message sent amongst admin chat for another server. You know, internal information.

Additionally, Lars was simply a Senior Admin for FCV and was never one of the people who set up that server, nor did his comment about killing HOG, clearly an exaggeration, actually carry any weight or echo the sentiment of those that directly ran and set up FCV. When I was running FCV we saw plenty of similar comments from HOG admins and we never banned them for it, because that would be petty and removing someone’s access to one of the only servers for this game is relatively serious and should be treated as such.

Side note, kinda laughable claiming FCV was trying to poach HOG admins back when this happened. They literally applied for admin of their own accord, nobody was ever “poached” and using that term for admins for a game server is just silly.

[Nate.]

Instead of continuing to use the feedback thread, might I suggest you open a discord chat to try and resolve the issue. Thanks.

[InfantryGamer42]

Instead of continuing to use the feedback thread, might I suggest you open a discord chat to try and resolve the issue. Thanks.

Come on Nate. This is first PR drama of 2023, let it run to the end here.

[LarsSantiago]

Instead of continuing to use the feedback thread, might I suggest you open a discord chat to try and resolve the issue. Thanks.

I genuinely would love to discuss this, like adults, through other means but they will not respond to me elsewhere.

I am also banned from their discord for the same reasons above.

They are only responding to us here because it's public and the devs read this forum.
This will likely not be resolved without external mediation.
All I can do is complain on here.

If 2ic or anyone who represents hog leadership would like to talk about this in private I would love to do that. This is not as big of an issue as they've made it.
I do not believe anyone in those positions is mature enough to handle that however.

[Vista]

Instead of continuing to use the feedback thread, might I suggest you open a discord chat to try and resolve the issue. Thanks.

The best way I agree completely

[LarsSantiago]

The best way I agree completely

Again id love to, it was not my first choice to come here and complain.

Show me the path where 2ic or any hog leader will get in a discord channel with me and im there.

I have no other way to get in contact with someone.

[Risiko94]

The following are examples of 2ICs treatment of the players as an admin.
They were taken from the ingame allchat and teamchat.
I can provide proof for everything.

tuna, u need to stfu. This is your last warning.
stop shooting at east shore u morons
FUCKING MOVE UP U WORTHLESS *****
idiots
fucking retarded team
fucking retards
fucking morons
whats the point of fucking sharing intel w u retards
have fun assaulting the basement now retards
u moron
are u guys retarded
stfu
just stfu

He hates meanies tho:

!s Don't harass or bully other players. If we find out, you'll be banned for a long time.

[2IC]

The following are examples of 2ICs treatment of the players as an admin.
They were taken from the ingame allchat and teamchat.
I can provide proof for everything.
He hates meanies tho:

Do better.

I said stfu more times than that.

[SemlerPDX]

Do better.

I said stfu more times than that.

EDIT: after speaking with an old chat buddy in teh dicrods, 'les', I believe I have missed some information relating to a certain individual and means of quoting things said by moderator(s) while in game - that being not from some matches they played in with said moderators in recent days/weeks, but rather from some outside perspective scraping files for anything which matches keywords and wholly without context. I'll say that I stand by my opinion that there's no excuse to excessively vent on players we gotta moderate, but I won't assume anything malicious by any of my fellow server mods/admins at PR without proper context. I feel as if I was unwittingly baited into feeling a certain way about an admin in another community by someone using raw database information to construe isolated or potentially warranted incidents into something more than they were. That's some schistey shit right there, and not to the fault of HOG or 2IC.

[2IC]

[Deleted]