Tanks losing gun to one frontal AP hit

[PatrickLA_CA]

Well, I always found that winning with ground assets is more dependent on positioning rather than knowing strengths/weaknesses. Funnily enough, even in games such as War Thunder where components, strengths and weaknesses are very accurately modeled, the same holds true.

The problem is if you get out of main at 100% HP and arrive at the position at 95% because you hit a tree or went over bumps. I guess removing terrain collision damage is going to open up a lot of unrealistic scenarios like jumping off cliffs etc, but I can't see any exploits if hitting objects like trees would deal no damage to a tank, of course, if that is possible

[Suchar]

Is the skill of avoiding terrain damage not a thing?
Use roads if it's such an issue.

[Coalz101]

Is the skill of avoiding terrain damage not a thing?
Use roads if it's such an issue.

I'm arguably a good driver (Sometimes...) and I can tell you, sometimes the terrain fucks you over even if you try to avoid it. Concrete bushes and deep trenches/drains can really fuck you over.

Trees are fine, I believe on almost every map I can drive a tank without pressing S through the forest. However, if I have to press S, it's most likely that I didn't read the forest spacing correctly and went the wrong way.

And Suchar, everyone in the world of PR knows (Unless they are new) ROADS are a BIG NO GO because I'm certain on every single map in PR people drop mines on roads.

I'd like to argue that running over a mine in a heavy apc or MBT should just track it. (Depending on which part of the vehicle the mine ends up underneath)

[Rabbit]

I like the damage from things like trees. It prevents a player from flooring it through the woods, meaning there are pros and cons to driving in the woods rather than just pros.

[PatrickLA_CA]

There are still cons, you hit a true, you'd be stuck, you have to go back, turn around and avoid it. The only difference is there won't be stealth damage to your tank that you're not even aware of. Either that, or add a health bar.

[Rabbit]

There are still cons, you hit a true, you'd be stuck, you have to go back, turn around and avoid it. The only difference is there won't be stealth damage to your tank that you're not even aware of. Either that, or add a health bar.

Once PR adds a speed inhibitor to non road materials fine, but till then this is what keeps you from flooring it road speed through woods.

[axytho]

Sigh. The point is = Asset fights are not fun and rewarding atm. I don't get it how hard is it to understand. The skill and experience doesn't matter at all. The knowledge of tank weakpoints / strenghts and weaknesses doesn't matter anymore. An asset crew consisting of players with less than an hour of experience can win against a crew that has played this game for over 10 years just by sheer luck. How is this good game mechanics?

I like the idea that was put forward a while ago about delaying the disabling feature. It's been over 7 months, any update on that? Is it sill something that is being worked on?

If you're so scared of new players, make a password-ed server for your clan to play perfectly balanced 5v5 Vehicle Warfare maps on.

Instead of calling for features that are unrealistic just so you can have an advantage by knowing this game better than new players.

If you get shot in the front with an AP shell, you might lose your gun. If you get shot in the chest with 30-06 you might die. There are thousands of games out there where this is not the case. Why are you trying to make this game like them?

[PatrickLA_CA]

Because it is completely random? It does not require gunnery skills to hit a gun breech or gun barrel. It literally tosses a coin and decides who wins. Outflanking a tank and shooting him in the side might not take down his gun due to rng, then that outflanked tank can turn the turret while the flanker is reloading, hit them and disable their gun, completely shitting on their flanking tactic. All decided randomly

[axytho]

Because it is completely random? It does not require gunnery skills to hit a gun breech or gun barrel. It literally tosses a coin and decides who wins. Outflanking a tank and shooting him in the side might not take down his gun due to rng, then that outflanked tank can turn the turret while the flanker is reloading, hit them and disable their gun, completely shitting on their flanking tactic. All decided randomly

So what? That's how this game goes. If you have a SPG techie, no one complains that you're going to need to get multiple shots of to win the fight.

Just bring more than 1 tank, or get back in cover as soon as you fire.

[PatrickLA_CA]

That's not the point. You know a techie can't take a hit, so you have to use it accordingly. But with a tank, you don't really know whether it can or can't take a hit, because that is decided by a random number generator at the exact point which can punish or reward a player regardless of their skill or tactic

[axytho]

That's not the point. You know a techie can't take a hit, so you have to use it accordingly. But with a tank, you don't really know whether it can or can't take a hit, because that is decided by a random number generator at the exact point which can punish or reward a player regardless of their skill or tactic

So you need to hedge your bets by bringing a second tank, or telling the closes inf squad to hit tank with lat.

This game is not like CS:GO or chess. It has, AND SHOULD have a small element of luck to it. No one complains about spray patterns being random in this game, or mortars being random.

WTF not make it like CS:GO? Because if you do this, it will become unplayable for people who haven't "memorized the spray patters" so to speak.

The community will whither as it will take ~1000 hours of play time before you get your first kill.

Especially considering that people literally shout at you at the end of the game if you screw up assets by not knowing the "meta".

[T.E.D.F4257845]

This mechanic adds nothing positive to the gameplay. It more pushes asset players away from playing this game than anything. Why should players be punished by some random number being generated in the background & forced to sit in main for 20 minutes just because of that? I've yet to see an asset player to say "hey, this is one damn good gameplay mechanic, wish we had this earlier" without dripping with sarcasm.

It's damn sad to be on the recieving end as much as it is to see other players get this as well. How many times have I've had the moments when we should have died because I got bored, went full retard and rushed in only to get ambushed by the enemy and shot in the back. But hey, we fired back and knocked out their gun. Fun, right? Great mechanic.

[CAS_ual_TY]

So you need to hedge your bets by bringing a second tank, or telling the closes inf squad to hit tank with lat.

Because there is always more than 1 tank and because you can always rely on random people!
Oh wait, no, this is 2021 not 2010, nevermind...

This game is not like CS:GO or chess. It has, AND SHOULD have a small element of luck to it. No one complains about spray patterns being random in this game, or mortars being random.

WTF not make it like CS:GO? Because if you do this, it will become unplayable for people who haven't "memorized the spray patters" so to speak.

CS:GO also has small elements of luck. But if you do everything right in CS:GO, you will be rewarded 99% of the time.
If you do everything right in a tank on tank engagement in PR, you will only be rewarded 50% of the time. This is not a "small element of luck".
The comparison alone of spray patterns and this mechanic is absolutely retarded.

The community will whither as it will take ~1000 hours of play time before you get your first kill.

Especially considering that people literally shout at you at the end of the game if you screw up assets by not knowing the "meta".

Sounds like you have ~1000 hours of play and still get yelled at at the end of the game. Maybe deserved?
Jokes aside, this is not true anymore. Assets arent in elitists' hand as much anymore as they used to be when I started playing. Still not perfect but not as bad as it used to be either.
And it completely seems like you are missing the point here. The point is not "make the game so you must have 1000 hours of play time to be able to properly play a tank". The point is "you can do absolutely everything right and still get fucked over by RNG half the time".

[axytho]

The point is "you can do absolutely everything right and still get fucked over by RNG half the time".

In my humble opinion, doing everything right should involve bringing more than just a tank to fight another tank.

I know the current meta is to meet the other tank far away from the objective and engage in a fair fight.

I also understand that this fight would be a lot fairer if tanks wouldn't lose gun to a frontal AP hit, which is considered "a glancing blow" in the tank duelling community.

I guess you're probably right that if that is the meta, making it perfectly fair and completely not relying on RNG is the best way to go about it. But TBH, just use your team, that's what it's for.

I don't really care about this change. I just find the whole "fair fight" meta stupid.

[Suchar]

The point is "you can do absolutely everything right and still get fucked over by RNG half the time".

Flashbacks from Hairy not fully repairing, frontally attacking enemy tank alone, calling it 'outmaneuvering' for no reason, and crying to devs because he died.

Doing 'absolutely everything right' also includes avoiding terrain damage which quite a few people seem to ignore.

If you do absolutely everything right, you are not going to have your gun or tracks disabled after first hit.

[InfantryGamer42]

Question for DEVs. Is it possible to give crewman ability to check health of vehicle when he is out of it, like we can check amount of supplies of crate when we are near it or how we can check ammo of gun when we press Q? If it is possible, it could "balance" issue for now, at least until Alon pulls out his coding magic again and makes ammo able to register what part of vehicle they hit.

[Fastjack]

Avoiding terrain damage is also the key.

Question, why so many vehicles reacting so unrealistic bumpy-jumpy and sideslipping/tokyo drifting 3m sidewards by driving 1m forward on a small hill on low speed?

Driving on Fools Road and Sareema isnt fun when you not use the roads.

[PatrickLA_CA]

But even if you have 5% terrain damage to your tank, and you manage to move on the flank of the enemy team's tank and get the first shot to their side, which might or might not disable their gun, say, it doesn't disable it. Then that tank that got outplayed, turns around, hits your tank in the front and by chance takes your gun out, enabling them to chase you down and destroy your tank. This does not reward smart play.
All you really need to do is have vBF2 tanks shelling it out in a line, except that some might get lucky and others unlucky decided by the game.

[CAS_ual_TY]

Flashbacks from Hairy not fully repairing, frontally attacking enemy tank alone, calling it 'outmaneuvering' for no reason, and crying to devs because he died.

Doing 'absolutely everything right' also includes avoiding terrain damage which quite a few people seem to ignore.

If you do absolutely everything right, you are not going to have your gun or tracks disabled after first hit.

Yes. People who drive Tanks do not want to lose to RNG because they did not handle their fucking Tank like a fucking porcelain tea cup, only touching it with gloves, wrapping it in safety paper and having people fucking carry it around. Because it is a fucking Tank.

The discussion for this mechanic here in this thread continuinly goes back to this concrete incident that happened. Both by those who defend or those who hate this mechanic. Is it so hard to think of this as a whole, especially after mats has revealed the insides to this mechanic?

Can we just agree already that

• Yes, if you were damaged already, you deserve to get your gun tracked by a frontal AP shot
• No, your gun should not get tracked if you were only so slightly damaged
• And, no, terrain damage is simply anavoidable as of right now and you should not have to worry about that in a fucking Tank unless you purposely start driving into trees, walls and whatnot (because thats how the engine is and you will get terrain damage)

So I am going back to my initial proposal which can very easily make both sides happy:
Can we just lower the threshold for that? Being in disable-range at 98.4% health just seems a little quick. Maybe to <95% for a start? So lower the disable threshold from 65% to 61.5% would give enough leeway for terrain damage.

In my humble opinion, doing everything right should involve bringing more than just a tank to fight another tank.

I know the current meta is to meet the other tank far away from the objective and engage in a fair fight.

I also understand that this fight would be a lot fairer if tanks wouldn't lose gun to a frontal AP hit, which is considered "a glancing blow" in the tank duelling community.

I guess you're probably right that if that is the meta, making it perfectly fair and completely not relying on RNG is the best way to go about it. But TBH, just use your team, that's what it's for.

I don't really care about this change. I just find the whole "fair fight" meta stupid.

No, you can add RNG. That is totally fine. The point is that RNG is happening a little too quickly.

[Tony_AbbottPBUH]

It's fine how it is. I can count on one hand the number of times i've been gun tracked in the past 6 months, let alone first shot. I also manage to never flip armoured vehicles or do other dumb shit you people constantly complain about. Tanks aren't invincible and they aren't all terrain vehicles that can just bounce off large trees or run through gullies at full speed with no detrimental effects.

We've just established that RNG is fine, now we just need to establish that terrain damage is fine and that people should get better at driving so they don't go into a fight with >1% terrain damage so RNG isn't in play until the 2nd hit.