Oneshot Garand

[mebel]

Is there a way of issuing player with random max health or random armour points at a spawn? Without letting know player about it ofc. That would bring some randomness to a damage system - one would not know it he will survive one or two hits from a rifle. If you can't model something precisely, use statistics.

After that, we could play with distribution of those values to balance out the gameplay.

Let's say:
90% of chest hits from K98 would be fatal
70% of chest hits from M1 Garand would be fatal
75% of chest hist from G43 would be fatal.

Some deviations on health/armor level would be nice to see in other scenarios too, not just WW2. That would bring some individual features to each player, just like it is in reality. Another level of uncertainty it's nice.

For example after spawn you get 100hp, every time.
My idea is to replace that value with base 90hp + random value bonus ranging from 0 to 20 uniformly.
Let's say you want 70% fatal M1 Garand - make it doing 104 dmg. There's a 70% probability of hitting someone with 104 or less hp.
That's the simplest form, values, random values distributions should be discussed.


A small addition would be a impossibility of achieving higher level of armour/health after being shoot and healed. Every Garand hit to the chest would be fatal after being hit previously. So think of it as a bonus that is applied only at spawn time - but that's out of scope of this topic.

[WingWalker]

Is there a way of issuing player with random max health or random armour points at a spawn?

That wouldn't work and would just be chaos and piss everyone off. However, something like that is already in PR.

As and example the DM kit vs the Sniper kit. DM kits have less damage than the Sniper kits. DM kits are around a damage value of around 70, whereas the Sniper rifles have a value around 90.

But the M14 designated marksman rifle and the M40 Sniper rifle both shoot the .308.

The values are not there to totally represent how much "damage" a .308 should have.

It is more a consideration of all factors involved for a realistic representation.

How much damage a .308 rifle will give when fired from an M14 that is not finely tuned for accuracy, and from the shoulder of a soldier with only moderately more training in shooting that the average soldier. VS a highly trained Sniper, with a highly accurate M40.

Though, I tend to think that both 30's should FIRST have the same damage, and other factors should be played with like settle time and deviation.

K98 should have sniper like accuracy with lower deviation and lower settle time, M1 should have longer settle and greater deviation from shot to shot from things like movement and recoil. Both of these rifles would, is real life, have the same "damage" as the Sniper and DM rifles.

This would be a more natural balance. Not a "nerf".

But all the players pissed their panties when they killed like they should and cried BALANCE !!! So it promptly got NERFED.

The same thing happened in the past (was it 1.0?) when all the damage models got a realistic bump in damage, and everyone shit a brick, because you couldn't get shot by a 7.62x39, put a bandaid on it, and be perfectly fine.

[axytho]

Random health.

+1! It would make it much more realistic, and it's not going to make a big change gameplay wise.

[transpilot]

Just make random win of fire fight. When two guys aim at each other a special music will start and a coin will start flipping. Than 1 Player dies and othe winner gets a medal

[axytho]

Just make random win of fire fight. When two guys aim at each other a special music will start and a coin will start flipping. Than 1 Player dies and othe winner gets a medal

Yes because mortars are not random...
Or AA missiles..
Or full auto spray...
Or shotgun spread...
Or Area attack...

If you want a game in which aim=win, (or in other words: good PC + lot's of free time=win) play CS:GO.

[Nate.]

While i see the general appeal, random health means that every single death is blamed on random health.

Players are hardcoded.

[mebel]

While i see the general appeal, random health means that every single death is blamed on random health.

Players are hardcoded.

So let's get back to CS16 where after taking a headshot from m4a1 you're left with 11hp everytime...

[PatrickLA_CA]

The goal should be to reduce random things where possible, not increase them. The things you mentioned above such as mortars, shotgun spray etc have to be random, the only other way to have them is to have them use a fixed pattern. Health should not be random. Maybe bullet damage can have an ever so slight random damage modifier but that should really be almost unnoticeably small.

Garand is fine and so is K98. It's the same discussion as MEC G3 ammo count. That's just the gun.

[mebel]

Health should not be random. Maybe bullet damage can have an ever so slight random damage modifier but that should really be almost unnoticeably small.

It's the same thing effectively.

[VTRaptor]

Just revert this absurd already.

[UncleSmek]

Just revert this absurd already.

Yeah revert. This is completely bonkers.

[Suchar]

I don't like the change either.
It encourages weird behaviours, such as reloading (which is emptying your mag very loudly) when you still have 3-4 bullets left - it's not that much when 2 hits are required to kill and you are on a laggy US server. It also makes Garand quite useless on long ranges. The enemy can just hide and heal after being shot once. It also allows Germans to take more risk during a firefight. I don't like it.
If the main issue with Garand vs K98 was Garand being superior in CQB, increase its deviation when moving instead of decreasing damage.

enough damage to [...] and give black screen

This quote actually made me think. Black screen you are referring to is not present in PR since May. Why are you mentioning it in october? I know it's hard to realise when playing in assets all the time but still.

[Danesh_italiano]

I don't like the change either.
It encourages weird behaviours, such as reloading (which is emptying your mag very loudly) when you still have 3-4 bullets left

What about making it to reload when the god dam player WANT it? None cares about the "cool" sound that none pay atention or could even hear it on firing fight... especially on this old game/engine with lot of clunky aninations...

---

Beta WW2 was gud, make it how it was in there... or even better, make it how it was on 0.98

[WingWalker]

What about making it to reload when the god dam player WANT it?

There was a thread about that, there is only one way to do the reload because of the type of reloads in PR.

[rogdozz]

I fully agree that change needs to be reverted. Nobody is playing ww2 anymore because of this. Maybe play around with deviation values, but garand needs to be 1 shot

[mebel]

Germans already got superior ARs.
Garand is heavier than K98. Play with accuracy and settle time.

Those weapons don't have to be equally effective, they weren't.
You could increase range of germans gredandes and reduce warmup time to balace it out because german nades are slow to use. You can also decrease BAR accuracy.

If you really want it not to be one-shoot, the only idea I have is to play with random health - but this would require a lot of conception making to set it properly, it would be an overkill only to solve an issue with garand.

just
MAKE GARAND ONESHOT AGAIN
and we're set, no need to continue this annoying discussion

[curahee150]

I actually thought the change to a 2 shot Garand was an improvement, but I like this idea about decreasing the deviation of the K98 and increasing the deviation for the (one shot)Garand better. That said, WW2 certainly hasn't died because of the change. WW2 is played rather frequently and it tends to be fun, even when using the Garand.

[Hans_Strudel]

I remember days of public open beta of WW2 submod, and at that state Garand on first hit cripple people to black screen, and it felt normal - enemy had less chance to recover and Garand had penalty for semiauto ( yet Gewehr 43 hadn't). It felt balanced. Maybe the difference is that last change made garand weaker comparing to beta version, would gladly look at how it plays out nowadays.

[PBAsydney]

This quote actually made me think. Black screen you are referring to is not present in PR since May. Why are you mentioning it in october? I know it's hard to realise when playing in assets all the time but still.

Should have been more specific, by black screen i mean critical health where map becomes unusable and you start coughing and can't sprint.

[axytho]

just
MAKE GARAND ONESHOT AGAIN
and we're set, no need to continue this annoying discussion

Exactly, and just make damage for all rifles/machine guns consistent:

damage of rifle = damage of bullet

so damage of ironsight mosin = damage of scoped mosin = damage of pkm = damage of SVD
as well, and same for all bolt action rifles.

when target has modern body armor, full power cartridge is 2 shot, else one shot: all problems solved.

There is no real gameplay reason for having arbitrary damage values to give snipers an advantage. Just balance AR/sniper by making stabilization take ages.