Weapon switch deviation too drastic

[UncleSmek]

Hi,

The AR is a dangerous weapon. It is used to control and disconnect lanes of reinforcement and with the right timing, positioning and patience it is highly rewarding.

As it was previously to 1.6.3 you would very realistically deploy the AR once you've hit the prone position and quickly be able to respond to the situation. With the current deviation punishment you render the gun useless until the timer is set which is so unrealistic compared to what was in place before which was pretty acceptable. If the point is to nerf the weapon as it is highly regarded as in delivering kills then there are different ways of going about it. One would be to increase the spread in deployed position with zeroed deviation to incentivise burst control etc.

Discuss.

[Wicca]

What do you want the game to cater to, attackers or defenders?

[UncleSmek]

What do you want the game to cater to, attackers or defenders?

As I am the king of inf I say what I am suggesting, in consideration of both.

[Sabiru_Han]

I think AR was already balanced before this nerf. The recoil of the standard mod makes it punishing for doing CQB. Its purpose was being a mobile firepower to take some stress away from ur squad members in a firefight. But now with this nerf u have to act like an MG kit which supposed to stay in his ground to either protect the ground/obj or ambush the enemy. Right know this nerf makes AR unnecessary while we have MG kit in the game. The nerf makes AR not just unrealistic but also annoying. I never heard any complaints about how AR was too powerfull from the players that i know of. Yes u can get a lot of kills when it is used in the correct way but always can be outplayed with the element of surprise by spotting them first.
What im trying to say is basically AR is supposed to be a better kit than others when it comes to kill counts if DEV's purpose on nerfing this kit was that. To me its not even a nerf. Its just an annoying MG kit's aspect and thats why it doesnt feel like AR anymore.

[Iguanadjy]

Reducing the deviation stabilization timer on AR when deployed would be great indeed! sometime the AR is not effective at all when skirmishes ambushes fall on you...

[Mats391]

I think its important to distinguish two things here:
1. Movement deviation carrying over: This happens for all weapons and is meant to fix getting magic instant 0 deviation just by switching weapon.
2. Switch penalty: This also happens for all weapons, but in general is so low that it only has an impact on weapons with very short delay to use (aka deployed AR).

The switch penalty even on deployed AR is minimal and settles fast. So I assume the complaints are more about the movement deviation carrying over. In that case this becomes more of a feedback about high settle time after moving with deployed AR than the new feature. That settle time seems to be very high indeed. Checking files it looks like deployed AR needs around 9 seconds to fully settle after moving a lot.

[AlonTavor]

Instead of setting relative deviation (current/max), we can set it based on remaining time to settle (current/settlespeed), clamped to max

[Iguanadjy]

That settle time seems to be very high indeed. Checking files it looks like deployed AR needs around 9 seconds to fully settle after moving a lot.

Those horribles 9 seconds when you know it’s fubar while watching your squad getting rekt and waiting to be shot down too. ^^

[UncleSmek]

I think its important to distinguish two things here:
1. Movement deviation carrying over: This happens for all weapons and is meant to fix getting magic instant 0 deviation just by switching weapon.
2. Switch penalty: This also happens for all weapons, but in general is so low that it only has an impact on weapons with very short delay to use (aka deployed AR).

The switch penalty even on deployed AR is minimal and settles fast. So I assume the complaints are more about the movement deviation carrying over. In that case this becomes more of a feedback about high settle time after moving with deployed AR than the new feature. That settle time seems to be very high indeed. Checking files it looks like deployed AR needs around 9 seconds to fully settle after moving a lot.

Yes, this sounds right Mats.

Instead of setting relative deviation (current/max), we can set it based on remaining time to settle (current/settlespeed), clamped to max

Anything that moves us away from the current AR and closer to the previous one.

[axytho]

Hi,

The AR is a dangerous weapon. It is used to control and disconnect lanes of reinforcement and with the right timing, positioning and patience it is highly rewarding.

As it was previously to 1.6.3 you would very realistically deploy the AR once you've hit the prone position and quickly be able to respond to the situation. With the current deviation punishment you render the gun useless until the timer is set which is so unrealistic compared to what was in place before which was pretty acceptable. If the point is to nerf the weapon as it is highly regarded as in delivering kills then there are different ways of going about it. One would be to increase the spread in deployed position with zeroed deviation to incentivise burst control etc.

Discuss.

The instant perfect accuracy after going prone is not really realistic, and is one of those insider tricks that PR can do without. But having AR have the same "time to fully accurate" as an MG makes no sense considering their relative weights and ease of handling.

[Mats391]

Those horribles 9 seconds when you know it’s fubar while watching your squad getting rekt and waiting to be shot down too. ^^

You can shoot undeployed while waiting for move deviation to settle, then switch to deployed. Or just spray and pray while deviation settles. The different deviation types do not impact each other, it wont settle any fast if you do nothing.

[UncleSmek]

The instant perfect accuracy after going prone is not really realistic, and is one of those insider tricks that PR can do without. But having AR have the same "time to fully accurate" as an MG makes no sense considering their relative weights and ease of handling.

There will always be insider tricks in all games and that is what seperates dedicated players from casual. But you are correct in the latter sense.

There needs to be a distinction between the AR and MG, right now the AR plays like a MG which shouldnt be the case. The AR needs to be highly mobile. These deviation changes totally neglect the role of the AR in an infantry squad and treats it as the MG. If this is the case, why dont you increase the accuracy of the MG being shot from the hip? It should go both ways is what I mean.

[Iguanadjy]

You can shoot undeployed while waiting for move deviation to settle, then switch to deployed. Or just spray and pray while deviation settles. The different deviation types do not impact each other, it wont settle any fast if you do nothing.

Sure thing but firing or not that supression is rarely effective like you said SPRAY & PRAY lol

[UncleSmek]

You can shoot undeployed while waiting for move deviation to settle, then switch to deployed. Or just spray and pray while deviation settles. The different deviation types do not impact each other, it wont settle any fast if you do nothing.

This happens even without the recent changes and any well versed player will read and understand that situation and pop that sucker in the head before the deviation zeroes. This is stupidity in terms of gameplay, not anything that should be a feature.

If you DEVS are leaning towards these kind of thoughts I would suggest you increase the recoil and decrease the needle like precision one has with almost every AR. Dont fiddle around with the deploy function when its not even a problem.

[Rabbit]

This happens even without the recent changes and any well versed player will read and understand that situation and pop that sucker in the head before the deviation zeroes. This is stupidity in terms of gameplay, not anything that should be a feature.

If you DEVS are leaning towards these kind of thoughts I would suggest you increase the recoil and decrease the needle like precision one has with almost every AR. Dont fiddle around with the deploy function when its not even a problem.

Agree. The only needle like precision MG I have ever fired is the 240.

[UncleSmek]

Agree. The only needle like precision MG I have ever fired is the 240.

And this is why you also get the high kill counts. The precision is the problem NOT instant deviation.

[Rabbit]

And this is why you also get the high kill counts. The precision is the problem NOT instant deviation.

Yeah. I would have loved being allowed to touch recoil settings.

[Frontliner]

And this is why you also get the high kill counts. The precision is the problem NOT instant deviation.

Both are problematic. Also the fact that MGs don't increase deviation depending on amount of shots fired(well, techincally they do, but the amount is miniscule).

[LimitJK]

coupling deviations was a good thing that ends pronediving ARs at range killing you even before ones own gun has settled.
it just is a little much now and needs to be ironed out a little bit.

And this is why you also get the high kill counts. The precision is the problem NOT instant deviation.

no, if a set up AR sees you it should be able to effectively engage you. deviation is giving a time window in which this balance is shifted towards other kits when unexpectedly meeting each other on the move. turning this around would make it akin to a high capacity SMG role.

Yeah. I would have loved being allowed to touch recoil settings.

first you got to really think through the gameplay implications.
last time someone meddled with such core mechanics it was a shitshow.
to quote someone who already summarized the matter quite well many winters ago :

I like LMG's MMG's in their current state. Granted I do use them more than any other kit but they are less accurate than their real life counter parts already. I don't see them needing balance atm but if they do I would only change deploy speed pr reload speed to make them talk longer. But that is only if they needed changing I feel they are fine atm, remember they are the largest causality producing weapon for infantries.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showth ... p?t=133834

[Rabbit]

first you got to really think through the gameplay implications.
last time someone meddled with such core mechanics it was a shitshow.
to quote someone who already summarized the matter quite well many winters ago :
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showth ... p?t=133834

Most MG's would actually be LESS accurate under my recoil; deviation would actually be less punishing.