TOW emplacement is now labour intensive

[Crylink]

The latest update introduced new balance changes regarding the TOW emplacement and that changes are that now TOWs start with no ammo loaded into it.

here's the problem - you need alot more people now to keep the TOW armed.

I dont know if the intention was to make the each TOW shot more expensive and less likely to be used against infantry.

But now it just caues TOW gunners, to scream for ammo which needs alot of manpower because rearming the rifleman ammo box takes a long time and the distance from the tow to the crate is often large.

TL;DR - New balance for TOW emplacements requires many more people to keep them supplied.

[PBAsydney]

Good, that was the intended purpose.

[Nate.]

The latest update introduced new balance changes regarding the TOW emplacement and that changes are that now TOWs start with no ammo loaded into it.

here's the problem - you need alot more people now to keep the TOW armed.

I dont know if the intention was to make the each TOW shot more expensive and less likely to be used against infantry.

But now it just caues TOW gunners, to scream for ammo which needs alot of manpower because rearming the rifleman ammo box takes a long time and the distance from the tow to the crate is often large.

TL;DR - New balance for TOW emplacements requires many more people to keep them supplied.

on the other hand, TOWs are now faster to shovel, have a shorter firing delay and also reload quicker.

From changelog:
Updated with reduced reload time of deployable ATGM by 5 seconds.
Updated with reduced delay to use of deployable ATGM by 5 seconds.
Updated with reduced time to shovel deployable ATGM.

[ismaelassassin]

i agree, even a good squad has trouble rearming these positions as generally there would be one or even no riflemen on the squad, and the TOW/SPG emplacements require 2 ammo bags, so if you are lucky you would need to have 2 men of your squad to exclusively resupply the TOW for the following minutes. And this is in a good squad, in others people dont even get on the emplacements nor shovel if you dont specifically point them out, even less resupplyi if they are impacient or new player kind

[Outlawz7]

I dont know if the intention was to make the each TOW shot more expensive and less likely to be used against infantry.

No, the intention was to get rid of the exploit wherein you delete and rebuild emplacements to get free ammo with each new rebuild.

[ALFABETAS]

The latest update introduced new balance changes regarding the TOW emplacement and that changes are that now TOWs start with no ammo loaded into it.

here's the problem - you need alot more people now to keep the TOW armed.

I dont know if the intention was to make the each TOW shot more expensive and less likely to be used against infantry.

But now it just caues TOW gunners, to scream for ammo which needs alot of manpower because rearming the rifleman ammo box takes a long time and the distance from the tow to the crate is often large.

TL;DR - New balance for TOW emplacements requires many more people to keep them supplied.

No, the intention was to get rid of the exploit wherein you delete and rebuild emplacements to get free ammo with each new rebuild.

Oh yea. Was exploiting that hard. I was fun, miss you infinite ammo!

[Coalz101]

No, the intention was to get rid of the exploit wherein you delete and rebuild emplacements to get free ammo with each new rebuild.

Had a feeling that was the issue, I blame Merk mortars for making this known. <3 (I'm joking)
But yeah on a real note emplacements feel more valuable to keep up rather than replacing them every 5 minutes for a better spot because it'll take you a ton of effort to get it up and be an active threat quickly.

[UncleSmek]

Yeah this change was needed and I wouldnt call it labour intensive as much as that it requires more planning and coordination with your trans squad to squeeze those last seconds and push the envelope on how fast you can get it up and armed.

[Filamu]

No, the intention was to get rid of the exploit wherein you delete and rebuild emplacements to get free ammo with each new rebuild.

Which is a good goal. A SL can always ask for one or two riflemen for the quick tow shot.

[chupachupp]

I really like this change. I think super FOBs needed this nerf, and setting up the position is a lot more involved. FOBs were being placed very aggressively some times which always felt like a bit of a misuse.

[weed]

Nah bro now u just need to place crates better that's all

[Sapper28]

Hi all,

First, I want to admit to exploiting this... exploit. I enjoyed re-digging mortar pits for infinite ammo. That being said, I find this change to be significant enough to warrant further discussion.

On AAS maps where the factions are fairly balanced, both sides have equally nerfed assets and rearming requirements. So, while this change will be irritating, the issue is moot there.

However, I think that this change has created a few different issues on INS maps:

1. Balance
OPFOR has a limited time to get established defending a cache in the 5 minutes between cache spawn and BLUFOR visibility. Before this change it was already a rush to get emplacements planned, set, dug and manned during this time.

With the new changes, ammo also needs to be arranged, delivered to the site and thrown on the emplacements. I understand that the hideout provides ammo, but this has proved to be insufficient when at greater distances from emplacements.

As an INS SL, I find myself sometimes not bothering to establish emplacements, as the enemy are upon us before we can even begin to get ammo to emplacements. I'm sure that others feel the same.

This means caches are not as well defended with emplacements. The game is then unbalanced against the BLUFOR that regularly uses heavy assets which are now more difficult to counter.

*** Possible solutions ***
A. Increase the BLUFOR cache visibility time from 5 minutes (possibly 10 minutes).
B. Give emplacements a lesser amount of initial ammo - not full - just enough to begin engaging the enemy while ammo is organised and delivered.


2. Ammo availability
There are just not enough ammo / support techies on the OPFOR team to support this change. Between enemy action and ammo techies being used as transport by less teamwork oriented players, there are just not enough of there vehicles.

*** Possible solution ***
More ammo techies, a lot more.


3. Warrior kit availability
Kit requests on the OPFOR team are hit and miss. I have played for while now and I still don't know which maps / factions allow kit request off the cache or even the main base. I know Fallujah doesn't allow kit requests at main because it has always infuriated me.

With this change the warrior kit will be needed more and more to reload emplacements. If kit requests are not allowed off the cache and the only resupply option is ammo boxes (not crates), this makes resupply almost impossible without TKing one of your own guys to respawn with a warrior kit. This is not ideal.

*** Possible solutions ***
A. Allow kit requests at all caches and main bases
B. More support techies / logistic vans (with the small / large crate) to allow for kit requests
C. REMOVE THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE WARRIOR ALTOGETHER. That is, have emplacements automatically rearm off nearby ammo boxes / crates without the need for an ammo bag. This could occur within say 10 metres of the emplacement.


Please consider these changes.

[Coalz101]

*** Possible solutions ***
A. Allow kit requests at all caches and main bases
B. More support techies / logistic vans (with the small / large crate) to allow for kit requests
C. REMOVE THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE WARRIOR ALTOGETHER. That is, have emplacements automatically rearm off nearby ammo boxes / crates without the need for an ammo bag. This could occur within say 10 metres of the emplacement.

A. Makes no sense all factions allow requesting ktis from caches and mainbases... However the Insurgent faction only has medic as a requestable kit. So a better suggestion is to let warrior kit be requestable along side the medic kit.
B. Teams just need better coordination, tell your mine layers don't take all the ammo techies and leave them on the field,.
C. No, that would just encourage the same thing they tried to nerf.

[WingWalker]

What is the problem here?

You need to build a FOB for a TOW, right?

You need 2 crates for a FOB with a TOW.

You need 1 rifleman that can rearm your TOW, and can easily rearm his ammo bag off the crate.

So while you are looking for targets with your TOW, your rifleman is rearming his ammo bag and watching for INF closing in on your FOB.

Not really a complicated situation. Really just basic Squad play fixed to a FOB.

Maybe a 2 man team if not a whole squad.

[MOSES!!]

What is the problem here?

[/QUOTE

The problem is that some players don't know that after the tow is dug there's no rounds in it and don't have the rifleman kit right away to resupply not just the tow but the same for mortars and hmgs you have to put ammo first after it's finished or being dug and some sl don't know that and forget after they first place down something you have to work together and constantly resupply the emplacements when needed its essential and it may not be fun but it has to be done work as a team, not for yourself. but the devs say that the tows are faster to reload and the dig time is reduced so there shouldn't be a reason to complain if there's no ammo after the emplacements are dug get ammo and drop it in when the emplacement is being dug anyone can do it

[WingWalker]

At the worst this is a 30 second inconvenience...

Is there a reason YOU can't have the rifleman kit, and resupply yourself with it and the crate?

Or

.... is there a reason YOU can't lead a squad and sit all day if you want manning 1 TOW? You can have the whole squad all be riflemen if you really wanted.

[Sapper28]

C. No, that would just encourage the same thing they tried to nerf.

I disagree.

You still need a constant supply of boxes / crates which requires a dedicated team member to supply from main base right up to the emplacement. Having another team member just 'throwing ammo bags' seems a bit much, even for a 'reality' game.

By contrast, when a vehicle is resupplied, there is no requirement for the crewman to get out and 'throw ammo bags' onto the vehicle. The vehicle just rearms and repairs itself out of the repair bay.

I believe that if the initial emplacement ammo count is zero, then the requirement for 'throwing ammo bags' should be removed. This is a reasonable trade-off.

[ObeerBongKenobi]

the constant need for crates and ammo since this update has made something that used to be enjoyable totally lame. I like that nobody in here has mentioned how long you need to wait at a repair bay to reload trucks. what is it 45 seconds for 2 crates now? something ridiculous like that. If you are going to slow everything else down why would devs make the loading time even slower? I'm talking mortars. They are slow and dumb and boring imo since the last update. can we get rid of the 5 round burst gimmick and go back to the old system? it was steady and you could fire one round to test without having to waste time reloading 5 shells. by the time you hit the target the map has already changed to something else and you need to start all over again. devs might as well make all the inf guns and tanks, apc cas fire 5 seconds after you left click while they're at it.

[ANW1173]

I didn't agree with this. at that time I'm playing using tow 2 guys is enough(one uses a tow and the other one is rifleman) and the supply create is far away. It's just need some communication and teamwork not screaming I need ammo.

[Geko]

This is solved by either having a competent squad with the leader assigning someone to co-operate with the one taking the TOW, or just playing with more experienced players that are more aware of their surroundings and do the right thing without having to be told what to do.

I do agree that some glitches regarding ammo bags not resupplying the assets needs to be fixed and a certain nerf is also needed in regards to the time it takes to get the resupplies necessary.

The change embraces teamwork a lot more and makes or breaks the satisfaction from having a competent co-operating squad to a bunch of lone-wolfers.