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Hmmm, question. What do you do on Karbala as an Apache? I've been in this psychological game before, where your real supposed safe haven is actually the most dangerous spot you could be in. Either going to or from main base, I'm always covering the flares key and ready to execute evasive maneuvers.

I'll give you one experience and ask you for what the best thing to do was.

Just yesterday, Welshboy and I finally flew the apache in it. As soon as it was up I got locked on at base. I was originally weary of the technical north of us that had deposed of our 2 littlebirds, and I attributed the fact that the second one dared to try and take off 5 seconds after the first one's demise to the fact that they were both in one man squads. It was killed before the Apache spawned, but I already got the message that this team was going to be ruthless and attack our main.

Here comes the fun part. When we finally get up, we get locked within a few seconds of warming up, all the while being in main. I'm able to take off and get away while dispensing only one set of flares, however, and we are able to help level the village in accordance to CAS requests. However, it's not so fun coming back to rearm. We get locked on as we come from the north, so I sat us behind the main, unable to get within it safely. It doesn't help, though, since we're still being locked, so I climb over main, drop a few flares, and head straight to the very South East corner of the map.

Now here's the question... What would you do now? I was fairly sure the AA was coming from the tower just south of main, since it was able to lock on even after I sat north of the base in fair cover. I knew that there was also a technical that had been shooting at us when we felw over, heading south. We were running low on ammo, and I had dropped about 3 of my 5 flare sets.

A final question, too. I want you to tell me if I did anything wrong here. We ended up asking the squads near main to make sure it's clear, because we had an AA and a technical threatening us. I then flew up to an altitude of 400, and told my gunner to target the tower with his cannons, and to see if we could get down safe from technicals. We got above main, he shot a few shots, but I heard the lock, and we were killed.

What went wrong and how can it be prevented in the current pr build (aside from a main base overhaul )?

Me nd Feuerwaffen were using the apache on karbala and we were for ever returning to base XD all i can say is that i am familiar with the best angles of approach to the base XD

Flying the Apache IS hard on Karbala. With so many pick-up kit stingers, the crappy structure of the main base, and the low view distance, I rarely ever see one last more than 5 minutes. You would need your entire team to clear out the area before you get to land.

When I fly the Apache on there and I hear of a Tech and AA outside the walls I have INF clear it out. Until I hear the Okay on TS I set in the corner of the map behind a bush, Tbh sounds like you did good, problem is when on INS would you really go to the tower with AA? I like to make them think that when i do it. Most insurgents hide in the buildings to the East and West of the tower making it extremely difficult to find the location of the AA. the problem with Karbala as 503 said the base just welcomes base raping, and the Trees swarming the Pads make it difficult to do a landing with out slowing to a hover than landing.

I agree. I think the only thing you couldve done is hang out somewhere more or less safe (high alt) and wait for the infantry to clear the area. inf could of course as well request CAS on the AA and the technical and you couldve provided blind fire. not too likely on a pub though

Hitman.2.5 wrote:Me nd Feuerwaffen were using the apache on karbala and we were for ever returning to base XD all i can say is that i am familiar with the best angles of approach to the base XD

I bet you you wouldn´t last 5 minutes if I was on insurgents. I am a sucky infantry man, but every time I am insurgent on karbala (I don´t bother going US anymore) there is always an SA-7 when I spawn, and it is incredibly easy to dispense even the best Apache crews.

How you do on karbala, is entirely effected by the enemy team, nothing lese.

If you get someone like me, who knows how the SA-7 works and is determined to shoot the apache down, rather than do anything else, then that apache will go down very quickly.

Not to mention all it takes is one guy soloing a technical with an SA-7, but such is the huge teamwork requirement of shooting it down.

Alex6714 wrote:I bet you you wouldn´t last 5 minutes if I was on insurgents. I am a sucky infantry man, but every time I am insurgent on karbala (I don´t bother going US anymore) there is always an SA-7 when I spawn, and it is incredibly easy to dispense even the best Apache crews.

How you do on karbala, is entirely effected by the enemy team, nothing lese.

If you get someone like me, who knows how the SA-7 works and is determined to shoot the apache down, rather than do anything else, then that apache will go down very quickly.

Not to mention all it takes is one guy soloing a technical with an SA-7, but such is the huge teamwork requirement of shooting it down.

You seem to know this, do the apache survive 1 missile or is it dead when the first one hits?

1 missile will kill the apache. If he is very lucky he might get away burning or damaged.

It's quite unfortunate how easily you can kill it. Even with the US team operating at their main base and defending it, a single person (and I've done this) can grab an SA-7, motorbike to the road near main, get in one of the many buildings, and fire at an Apache coming back. Especialy if it's relatively close, which it has to be to land, you can shoot the missile and it won't get the lock tone until it's a few tenths of a second away.

You don't even need to be in a squad for that

Thats why you have base defence...I personally feel your guys pain...I love flying but I haven't mastered some parts,(taking off...don't laugh...) so I don't like getting flamed for crashing helis. Although I DO appreciate people who give support to everyone else operating on the map. I like base defense because I am a natural turtle (in RTS', FPS'...even RPG's) I no matter how much noobs flame me I know I'm doing the team a big favour. I LOVE doing base def on Karbala...2 entrances that can be covered by 1 engineer. Really all you need is a sniper, a LAT or HAT kit (on insurgent maps they are usually available) an engineer. you can add in medics and specialists and grenadiers if you really need to, but you don't need to hinder the team unless people really want to do it. If you have even a mediocre base defense you should be fine lol....with a good one you shouldn't be getting any fire from 300-500 out from base (at least on Karbala)...if anything use a littlebird as a shield so they target that with their missile and take down the technical or the AA with your cannon once you've identified where its coming from.

Remember: if anyone flames you and you don't have a base defense squad they are to blame

1 somewhat clever determined player with an SA-7 > all the base defense.

The other thing is, no matter how many times you kill him, he´ll just come back with another SA-7, because there are a lot and they seem to respawn fast.

If you get someone like me, who knows how the SA-7 works and is determined to shoot the apache down, rather than do anything else, then that apache will go down very quickly.

Agree, I think AAs should be removed from the ins for this map unless they get modified, tech in the right hands are almost as deadly as the aas when the apache is hovering. Most people think its safe to fly high and have a nice steadly platform...

However as Alex said exp players can easily shoot you down even if you are high or take you down with RPG+lots of light arm fire.

When I fly, I only attack the compounds round the edge of the map as AAs rarely travel from ins main base to a cache in those areas to defend (ins at the caches in these areas usually just spawn there, make hideout and defend).

I fly vanilla style, circling over the compounds as fast as I can. Im flying as low as you would in vanilla if your were attacking inf. This is the only time the gunner gets his accurate shots off. If I am aware of enemies that the gunner is not I usually just back away and strafe with hydras and then contunue to circle. One time I did this we got 4 caches and 57 kills (19 as me pilot and rest gunner) also didnt die.

If I ever fly over the city I only do it for a laser (only lasers from SL/spotter thats in the sqd or on TS) I also keep my flares alive.

However, it is still very difficult to stop the campers in main.

Problems Ive had:
AA in the tall tower can lock when the heli is on the pad. (in public play there is no way you can leave the apache just lying there as soon as it spawns as a noob will get in it.) Ofc best option is to clear it out with inf...chance of that happening on pub = not very likely.

Tech camping main. VERY difficult to do anything with (if ins is exp). When your taking off wait for at least 1 min so you are FULLY warmed up and can fly at top velocity. Try to go up, with flares sharlply and go straight back down, the tech will probably start shooting and you will know where it is. Ofc if you got hit 2-3 times youre lowering to the heli pad anyway. Then best thing is to move fast and engage with hydras (DO NOT HOVER AND TAKE A HELLFIRE SHOT), 1 hydra about 10m away from tech will probably kill the gunner let alone with more or closer shots.

The biggest problem is the return. You may be damaged, have very little or no flares and worst of all, be a unexp flyer. To be sucessful in landing you need to be very exp and skillful. Flying in to the base fast and slowing it down between the trees somewhere before you slowly hover to the heli pad is your best bet. Problem with this is it is very trickly to pull off consistantly if you are not a exp and skillful pilot.

The base needs to be modified so that the choppers can take off and land safely... getting shot down should be done on the battlefield where both parties are fair.

I reakon moving the base back more north so that technicals can still drive round the back but cant go further than say 10m away from the wall. This means the apache wont be able to be seen taking off from the back but veh can still drive round.

Or have a much bigger no go zone. The plains are so flat that the technicals can still camp just from further away. Giving the helis a fair chance.

I then flew up to an altitude of 400, and told my gunner to target the tower with his cannons, and to see if we could get down safe from technicals. We got above main, he shot a few shots, but I heard the lock, and we were killed.

Attack heli pilots will soon realise that hovering is too risky on most maps. AAs are too quick on locking on. Kashan has a big view distance so its the only map you can sucesfully hover and kill. Quinling has too many hiding spots for aas so I only use spotter lasers. Muttrah is always strafing on a spotted location and flares are always constant, only time I hover is if im under 20m or so, so im behind a building of some sort where I know aa will have a difficult time getting us (only near docks).

Karbala is different as you only need to worry about held AAs, technicals and RPGs. The way I fly as I said above means you only need to really worry about a lucky AA or RPG shot. (need 2 hits with RPG to kill, be careful on return if hit by RPG). Technicals will have real trouble hitting you unless they really close to you.

Remeber after a AA has shot it needs to reload. So dont run if it missed, same with RPG. If you cant quickly locate the shooter, just strafe with hydras on the location you think he might be in. (a bleed given to an ins usually means he will bleed out) Ofc you only have so many seconds with the RPG as it has 3 shots.

Maybe I should put a guide up...

I also think that there only about 10 or so attack chopper pilots in PR that are exp enough to be able to use these birds the way they should be.

LudacrisKill wrote: However, it is still very difficult to stop the campers in main.

Problems Ive had:
AA in the tall tower can lock when the heli is on the pad. (in public play there is no way you can leave the apache just lying there as soon as it spawns as a noob will get in it.) Ofc best option is to clear it out with inf...chance of that happening on pub = not very likely.

Tech camping main. VERY difficult to do anything with (if ins is exp). When your taking off wait for at least 1 min so you are FULLY warmed up and can fly at top velocity. Try to go up, with flares sharlply and go straight back down, the tech will probably start shooting and you will know where it is. Ofc if you got hit 2-3 times youre lowering to the heli pad anyway. Then best thing is to move fast and engage with hydras (DO NOT HOVER AND TAKE A HELLFIRE SHOT), 1 hydra about 10m away from tech will probably kill the gunner let alone with more or closer shots.

Thats what base defense can DEFINITELY stop...if your getting hit with .50 cal and AA close to main you are not to blame

LudacrisKill wrote: The biggest problem is the return. You may be damaged, have very little or no flares and worst of all, be a unexp flyer. To be sucessful in landing you need to be very exp and skillful. Flying in to the base fast and slowing it down between the trees somewhere before you slowly hover to the heli pad is your best bet. Problem with this is it is very trickly to pull off consistantly if you are not a exp and skillful pilot.

The base needs to be modified so that the choppers can take off and land safely... getting shot down should be done on the battlefield where both parties are fair.

I reakon moving the base back more north so that technicals can still drive round the back but cant go further than say 10m away from the wall. This means the apache wont be able to be seen taking off from the back but veh can still drive round.

Or have a much bigger no go zone. The plains are so flat that the technicals can still camp just from further away. Giving the helis a fair chance.

As I said before...GOOD base defense squads look everywhere....go play Chicago Hardcore Insurgency (if you don't already) with me as base defense on Karbala...You'll be safe...the best squads (or at least me which seems to work well...) only keep a LAT kit and their engineer at main and try to expand their cordon around main, so we try to get out to close to the end of the park with snipers on the high tower and a HAT kit (or a stolen RPG) guarding the west plains and the rest guarding east or southwards

Yes I would love a constant base defense. However many players find it boring and do not do this in public play.

Also I live in London and get a really **** ping to most out of continent servers. Plus the time difference and the fact I cant stand insurgency maps over and over

If I do get shot down I usually base defend with a HAT.

SkaterCrush wrote:Thats what base defense can DEFINITELY stop...if your getting hit with .50 cal and AA close to main you are not to blame



As I said before...GOOD base defense squads look everywhere....go play Chicago Hardcore Insurgency (if you don't already) with me as base defense on Karbala...You'll be safe...the best squads (or at least me which seems to work well...) only keep a LAT kit and their engineer at main and try to expand their cordon around main, so we try to get out to close to the end of the park with snipers on the high tower and a HAT kit (or a stolen RPG) guarding the west plains and the rest guarding east or southwards

I would go on there to prove a point lonewolfing with this SA-7, but with pings over 220 it starts to get tedious.

LudacrisKill wrote:Yes I would love a constant base defense. However many players find it boring and do not do this in public play.

Also I live in London and get a really **** ping to most out of continent servers. Plus the time difference and the fact I cant stand insurgency maps over and over

If I do get shot down I usually base defend with a HAT.

^.^ ping doesn't do much...im in Australia and I get 300 ping and I just get lag spikes every so often...I just realized thats probably not best for low level flying >.<" but I'm joining a UK clan so see you around XD....(you'll be safe with meh!)

A ping over 170 is unplayable with my connection, I am not sure about ludicris.

Its in the range of .50 cal shots on stationary targets not registering and such for me.

Yeah ping doesnt give me lagg spikes unless its extremely high. However it seriously effects your hit detection.

I get under 10 ping and as low as 3 on a lot of servers as I live in central London, where I guess, those servers are based.

Quake has an average of 200-300 ping and he flies regularly on our server. More often than not i see the Apache go down to stupidity *takes off and rams the wall as if not even attempting to go over it* or over the battlefeild. Ive done base defense in it, but was more focused on blowing bomb cars with c4 at the entrance than technicals.

yea for me uder 300 ping is good for extreme low level flying but i am wary of lag pikes from 12yr noobs that dont know what ping is and goes into the server causing a HOLY LAG SPIKE BATMAN! from me