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Me & a squad lead by OD-s Deviant ambush the Russian tanks after taking out all of their APCs around the central village

Looks more like base camping, while the rest of the team are catching themselves around the flags. And how did that guy know when their armor was up?

Better keep the enemy occupied away from the flags than sitting on them getting raped.

[R-CON]Outlawz wrote:Looks more like base camping, while the rest of the team are catching themselves around the flags. And how did that guy know when their armor was up?

It spawns at 3:43 - the time when he said that was 3:42.

We were a full 2 grids away from their main, and Ambush is the Number 1 way to take out a Tank as a tank IRL, are realistic tactics not allowed in a reality mod? we actually took a huge risk - we didn't know that the enemy armour would come into our killing ground, as it happened they were slightly off causing one of our tanks to make a dash out of cover which got it destroyed. We used Teamwork, comms, and our intelligence to come out ontop and I thought teamwork, comms, and intel were ways you were supposed to win in PR (sure it was close when they're havok got involved but you can't have everything can you)?

They should of been paying more attention, they knew that we were north of central village because we engaged all of their BMPs with their nasty TOWs there.

and Btw - we'd just come from Central village where we'd been supporting our infantry again enemy infantry and APCs, once we thought our infantry could clear up we left.

Omg, i dislike theese tactics.

PlaynCool wrote:Omg, i dislike theese tactics.

Give me 3 good reasons why what we did here (ambush enemy tanks about 700-800m away from their main) are bad tactics?

Agree with Playncool, clearly not against the rules but seems a little cheap IMO. Wouldn't do it, but each to their own.

Actually, I'm curious, too, but as an outsider.

I am helping (in a small way) create the ArmA version of PR. I'm a long-time fan of combat simulations, and although I never played BF, I have friends who did, and I watched the development of it from afar. Since I've come into PR:ArmA development, I've tried to get an idea for what PR "is" - to the extent that is possible.

It seems to me that the tactics here were not like "camping" on a spawn point, blowing people away as they came into the game. Plus, there were several counter-tactics that were possible, so it wasn't like a cheat of some vuln or something. Would it have made a difference if they were HAT-possessing infantry? Or Helos? Or, for that matter, if they were calling in artillery to that location as a forward observer? (Dunno if you guys even have that in BF, but it is possible to do this in ArmA.)

Sorry for jumping in like this where I really have no business, but my curiosity has been piqued.

gazzthompson wrote:Agree with Playncool, clearly not against the rules but seems a little cheap IMO. Wouldn't do it, but each to their own.

Agreed.

[R-CON]Trexian wrote:Actually, I'm curious, too, but as an outsider.

I am helping (in a small way) create the ArmA version of PR. I'm a long-time fan of combat simulations, and although I never played BF, I have friends who did, and I watched the development of it from afar. Since I've come into PR:ArmA development, I've tried to get an idea for what PR "is" - to the extent that is possible.

It seems to me that the tactics here were not like "camping" on a spawn point, blowing people away as they came into the game. Plus, there were several counter-tactics that were possible, so it wasn't like a cheat of some vuln or something.

As Gazz mentioned, there's nothing wrong with the tactic(s) per se, especially considering how effective it can be. I don't know about the other peoples' reasons why, but for me it is mostly about etiquette and the golden rule (do to others as you'd have them do to you). While yes, you should always be ready for attack and such in war... it is a game at the end of the day, and when you're rolling out of your tank spawn you don't really expect to be engaged within 1 grid square of that, especially when the "fight" is occurring in E5 and you get killed in F2.

It is highly frustrating to be caught off guard like that, and since the tanks take 20 minutes to spawn in again, your team is essentially crippled, especially if you roll out in a big group and all get caught by surprise at once by an ambush like that. As I said... a very effective strategy on the US side and I'm sure it worked out well for them, but I guess I see near-main ambushes and camping more of an insurgency mode thing, and just don't gravitate towards it in AAS (especially not while tanking). The same thing works well on Kashan, camping with some tanks as the enemy are rolling out their 20 min spawned armour, but it's just cheap IMO and I'd rather outmaneuver and out-tank them on the battlefield rather than catch them by surprise as they roll out towards the battlefield.

[R-CON]Trexian wrote:Would it have made a difference if they were HAT-possessing infantry? Or Helos? Or, for that matter, if they were calling in artillery to that location as a forward observer? (Dunno if you guys even have that in BF, but it is possible to do this in ArmA.)

No difference to me, but again this is a highly subjective matter and everyone's opinion is different. I'm not sure if it is a coincidence but I do note the three main objectors to this tactic (myself, Gazz and OutlawZ) are more on the vet side, and certainly when PR was still a growing mod.. the community (at least the Australian one) became so tight because the great etiquette was expected on the battlefield. I have always regarded that as one of the major reasons why every other BF2 mod has fallen into obscurity while PR has flourished, because the gameplay attracts primarily the type of people that use that stuff between their head, not your average 'OMGZ LOOK AT MAH SCORE' gamer

Cheap...but it works. If this is the only way they could beat the enemy armor then by all means do what you have to do.

[R-CON]Trexian wrote:Actually, I'm curious, too, but as an outsider.

I am helping (in a small way) create the ArmA version of PR. I'm a long-time fan of combat simulations, and although I never played BF, I have friends who did, and I watched the development of it from afar. Since I've come into PR:ArmA development, I've tried to get an idea for what PR "is" - to the extent that is possible.

It seems to me that the tactics here were not like "camping" on a spawn point, blowing people away as they came into the game. Plus, there were several counter-tactics that were possible, so it wasn't like a cheat of some vuln or something. Would it have made a difference if they were HAT-possessing infantry? Or Helos? Or, for that matter, if they were calling in artillery to that location as a forward observer? (Dunno if you guys even have that in BF, but it is possible to do this in ArmA.)

Sorry for jumping in like this where I really have no business, but my curiosity has been piqued.

Eventually they called in their Atatck Heli which drove us away. Tbh guys - stop complaining, it wasn't camping or anything like that, we moved into position, where we believed the enemy would go (they didn't have to, but we thought they would to hunt us from central village) and Ambushed them, they were hit bad with 3/4 of their tanks going down, then they called in CAS and we were hit hard with 2/4 of our tanks going down. Tbh I think that's pretty realistic, "Ambushed by enemy, took heavy losses, called in CAS."

Maybe I should also mention that I'm a member of the Royal Armoured Corps, and as such I have a (very basic atm) understanding of realistic armoured tactics. Ambush is a massive one, just like with infantry.

That area was only 1 grid away from the main fight, if they weren't ready for an engagement then that's their fault and their problem, always be ready to be engaged ESPECIALLY that close to the battlefield. I knew that "Vets" Would complain but I thought it was a nice video showing un-orthodox tactics i.e an ambush rather than waiting until a contact is called and then charging blindly towards it like most arrogant "vets" do. Methinks that lying in wait and springing up on your enemy, WELL within the rules of the game, and is certainly using "the stuff between their head" (Not sure if you have 2 heads or something )

Also you are acting like we didn't support our infantry - before I started recording we were in the central village chasing APCs which our Infantry asked us to deal with. Smells like team work to me...

Btw - highly frustrating? It's a game and the point of the game is to win and have fun, it's "highly frustrating" to be hit once as an Insurgent and then bleed to death in an alleyway somewhere, but it's a part of the game, also, the people in the tanks (as you can see from the chat) complained for a start, but, tbh, worked out that they had been out played. We had thought that move through, and it is a realistic tactic which required high teamwork and co-ordination to work. If you are saying that the use of teamwork is against the Golden Rule (On that point, if I was in their place, which I have been before, I would be more annoyed at myself for not seeing them than them for being in good positions) then perhaps PR isn't for you.

Just because your average pubbie isn't very good, it doesn't mean that when you get 3 good tank crews that they shouldn't be able to use tactics, should it?

Tbh, I think that Trexian's outside look is better, "vets" are usually set in their ways and not willing to adapt, whereas a complete outsider can see something for what it is, with no prejudice views about it. Most people who play PR believe in set unspoken "rules" of "this is how you play in a whatever" if someone doesn't go along with these rules then they are denouced as a noob or to be using "cheap" tactics, because they think outside of the box, something that 0.9 was trying to produce.

P.S
If any of this sounds aggressive I'm sorry, it's not meant to

Lol, when Herb talked about this to me I thought he was talking about being two keypad grids away from the base area the way people were calling it cheap, but then when he explained to me it was the large grid squares I was 'what??'.

Engaging someone inside their mainbase DoD or just outside it where they have nowhere else to go is cheap. Laying a trap where they could have gone around is not cheap. I stand by Herbz on this one. To my knowledge the terrain did not prevent them from going a different route.

So guys, stop saying it's cheap and use your noggin' please.

RedSparrow wrote:So guys, stop saying it's cheap and use your noggin' please.

It's called an opinion, and apparently a few of us share it. Simply because you and Herbie disagree does not invalidate our opinion. I also don't really consider F2->E5 1 grid from the fight, but apparently that is quite subjective. You posted the video, we posted our opinions... I'm not sure what the problem is?

Forget it...

Psyrus wrote:It's called an opinion, and apparently a few of us share it. Simply because you and Herbie disagree does not invalidate our opinion. I also don't really consider F2->E5 1 grid from the fight, but apparently that is quite subjective. You posted the video, we posted our opinions... I'm not sure what the problem is?

During this thread I've been accused of base camping and had my intelligence insulted.

Please don't tell me where the fighting is in a match I played and you didn't. E5 is where our infantry is, apparently according to some people, but that doesn't mean all the fighting is where our infantry is does it?

We engaged a few APCs just south of us, also we engaged the first tank way before the second two. If their team had been talking to one another and using teamwork, they would of known that we were in the area, their CAS would already of been there, and their tanks keeping an eye out. Given the amount of risk we put into the ambush, and the amount of chances they had to get out of the ambush and avoid it in the first place, i don't see in anyway how this is cheap.

Your opinion is what I disagree with, and I think it's typical of the so-called "vets" of a game (Tbh calling yourself a Vet of a game is kinda silly) that simply because this isn't how the game usually goes it is unfair and not general "etiquette" (It must be very impolite to destroy your enemy assets before they can use them).

Do you also really think that it's a good tactic to go straight from your main base along a predictable route? if more people used the tactics in the video then PR would be a much more realistic game as far as teamwork and tanks are concerned. If this happened quite a bit, and you knew there were enemy tanks in the area, you could get your air assets to cover you, or even clear the area before you go, you would be on the lookout for enemy armour everywhere. Our squad used a realistic tactic which required teamwork and us to think outside of the box, and then get accused of being cheap

It may be "cheap", but its damn effective and I know what I would have chosen if I got the alternatives to risk all the tanks, or at least have some sort of advantage, its the tanks own fault not to be battle ready or scouted the area.

bahlye wrote:So...... Who won the round in the end ?.
(just curious )

Not sure - I had to leave by the end, but their havok managed to hunt our remaining tanks down one by one so it was pretty even.

Eh, another reason why assets shouldn't have ticket values IMO. In any case, I've always been against ambushing main areas (such as Dylum Village) because it detracts from gameplay. While the tank ambush was a little cheap (due to their closeness to the spawn), it surprises me that the Russian armor didn't try to flank from the West after they were aware that that area was being watched.