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On my way to work this morning I was listening to a really good audiobook about the history of the American NSA. The author really gives a detailed accounting of signals intercepts through America's conflicts and I am about halfway through the section on Vietnam. Listening to this gave me an idea of how it might be adapted to keep the commander's position as strong as it is right now without a UAV.

One of the main ways that American forces were able to track both NVA and VC movements were by their radio communications. The medium and tactical level communications were so easy to crack that by 1968 they had automated the process. Even if they could not actually understand the communications they had listening posts and Army aircraft all over the country and could use them to locate the source and size of a transmitter.

My idea is that the commander would hop in the command tent and "launch" an sig int aircraft over the battlefield, maybe you could replace the UAV launch noise with radio chatter. The commander wouldn't actually get to "ride" like the UAV but maybe get a cache kind of location (within X meters) on an enemy element bigger than so many men. After so many minutes the aircraft would have to return to base to refuel just like the UAV does now.

When was there a UAV?

This will suffice for recon purposes instead of the UAV im sure

A manned recon plane sounds nice. For lulz, let the guy in the second seat be able to use his handheld weapons.

Mount a 50 cal on the side of that spotter plane and your in buisness and buisness is good

Hunt3r wrote:A manned recon plane sounds nice. For lulz, let the guy in the second seat be able to use his handheld weapons.

A Bird Dog FAC pilot, Captain Hilliard Wilbanks, received the MOH posthumously for supporting an ARVN Ranger unit with attached US advisers under enemy fire with smoke rockets and by making three strafing runs, releasing his grip on the controls and firing his M16 from the cockpit side-window until he was shot down.

'[R-DEV wrote:Eddie Baker;1496605']A Bird Dog FAC pilot, Captain Hilliard Wilbanks, received the MOH posthumously for supporting an ARVN Ranger unit with attached US advisers under enemy fire with smoke rockets and by making three strafing runs, releasing his grip on the controls and firing his M16 from the cockpit side-window until he was shot down.

EPIC win.

Dev1200 wrote:EPIC win.

It would have been, had he not died in the extraction helicopter on the way back. The unit made it out of the ambush, though.

For me it's tied for the Most Badass Thing I have ever heard of anyone doing with a plane. The other resulted in a MOH, too.

What were the E3 sentries used for, Dident they have some sort of radar ontop of them?

puckett wrote:What were the E3 sentries used for, Dident they have some sort of radar ontop of them?

E-3s still do have a big radar on the top of them. They're used for airborne warning and control; basically air traffic control, warning friendly aircraft about air threats and directing others to intercept the threats. They didn't come into service until the late 1970s, though.

They used SIGINT/ELINT versions of the C-135 back then (and they still do), but it was strategic rather than tactical level intelligence, and the lag time for information to get to the guys on the ground was nowhere near as short as with today's capabilities, and even today there's a critical lag.

@Eddie, do you know all this or do you use our beloved Wikipedia?

Adetter wrote:@Eddie, do you know all this or do you use our beloved Wikipedia?

When I was much younger I was hugely into planes, contemporary and vintage. Also, my dad crewed C-135 series aircraft during the war.

The USAF also has their own historical websites; I had to look up the name of the FAC Pilot and MOH recipient, because, shamefully, I had remembered what he had done, but not his name.

I can however tell you off the top of my head the deeds and name of Colonel (then Major) Bernard Fisher (MOH), which is the other "Most Badass Thing I've Ever Heard" I mentioned. So as not to derail the thread, here is what he did:

Col. Bernard F. Fisher

Might sound cheap but for the sake of gameplay, would there be the possibility of...

1 Person flies the FAC bird (Cessna.. or the previous picture)
The aircraft has the characteristics attached to the UAV from vBF2, in which it emits a "scan" that goes out in a circle from the aircraft.. only say 100meters, but anything below it shows up on the CO/SL's map as a red blip.

That way if you simply fly over an area, you know that enemy is there, but you have no idea how many because you're moving to fast, thereby the plan has to loiter over a certain spot - risk is that the pilot is now putting himself and the plane at risk.

'[uBp wrote:Irish;1498773']1 Person flies the FAC bird (Cessna.. or the previous picture) The aircraft has the characteristics attached to the UAV from vBF2, in which it emits a "scan" that goes out in a circle from the aircraft.. only say 100meters, but anything below it shows up on the CO/SL's map as a red blip.

That way if you simply fly over an area, you know that enemy is there, but you have no idea how many because you're moving to fast, thereby the plan has to loiter over a certain spot - risk is that the pilot is now putting himself and the plane at risk.

Win. Absolute win.

The one time i played FH2 though, they have some sort of piper plane for scouting. Had the first person pilot, then a "down" view available to the pilot. There was also a secondary position but i was to afraid to use it without someone flying

Second seat in FH 2 is just a seat, you cant do anything but look around. At least it was like that some months ago....

it still is. checked 1 day ago.

Second seat of FH2 spotter planes allows you to place arty spots and is also a commander chair. It's rarely used though.

Can't you just use helicopters like the Huey as a spotter? They where going back and front, dropping of and picking up troops. It is also more affective to both spot and pick up soldiers, instead of just scouting or just dropping of troops.

But when it comes to radio spotting it could probably work if you import the original BF2:s commander scan, but tune it so it only sees some type of units, maybe only in the radius of your base or FOV:s.

After some searching I found this article:

"Capt. Warren Fuller of Reheboth Beach, Del., flew a helicopter during his first tour in Vietnam, and later made fixed-wing flights with highly trained radio researchers aboard. Using specialized electronics, they could pick up enemy radio signals in the jungle and plot a grid to guide American attacks."

Maybe the copilot could get some radio scanning functions, instead of just sitting doing nothing.

The idea of a spotter plane is nice but my idea was for signals intercepts. Almost every single time American forces were able to sneak up on NVA or VC positions was because they turned their radios on. For whatever reason they tended to use easily crackable codes on their tactical level radios but the SIGINT aircraft had the ability to talk with ground stations and actually triangulate where these radios, coded or otherwise were broadcasting from.

This is a HUGE advantage when you are talking about fighting an enemy in the jungle, especially in areas where the canopy make spotting from the air all but impossible.

that remember me of the scout plane in forgotten hope, it got an radar like uav and when u press c u can see the floor, would be a good idea, or not.