Wait what? (Bradley protection)

[Hunt3r]

In Silent Eagle, I had a Bradley be killed by a BTR firing 14.5mm AP to the front. Is it a bug? This really shouldn't happen. Ever.

[Dev1200]

It's called armor piercing for a reason. Did you know you can kill a tank with 30mm AP rounds?

[dtacs]

From GlobalSecurity on the M2A2/M3 Bradley with applique armor fitted, which the Bradley has right? This shouldn't happen, unless you had taken hits earlier or serious terrain damage.

Were you in the Bradley or did you see it happen?

[Tarantula]

In the interest of balance and gameplay shouldnt it be possible that enough sustained fire from one apc to another even if it is to the front should kill it?

[Celestial1]

In the interest of balance and gameplay shouldnt it be possible that enough sustained fire from one apc to another even if it is to the front should kill it?

BTR-80s fire 14.5mm.
Bradleys and BTR-80As fire 25mm/30mm, respectively.

BTR-80s should not be able to compete against a Bradley. BTR-80As, however, should.

[axel99i]

i think its possible, the Bradly is a 2 " Thincan ALU foil

[Hunt3r]

I believe that the Bradley A1 had 14.5mm protection at least to the front. It's somewhat ridiculous, because in theory the US Army wouldn't be using outdated Bradleys and instead they would have the A3 variant, with 30mm protection across the frontal arc, and possibly the sides.

14.5mm AP shouldn't be able to even touch Bradleys. 30mm APFSDS-T should be able to slice through Bradleys though.

[Dev1200]

Were you in the Bradley or did you see it happen?

T72 Vs Bradley. I used AP rounds to kill it in MP. The crew jumped out by accident, so I shot one of them with HE rounds. The other one jumped out in panic, and I shot HE at him as well. This was at the beginning of kashan, and there weren't any friendlies nearby. Pure AP rounds killed the tank.

[Hunt3r]

It should only really kill tanks to the rear. If you got him from the front, that shouldn't be happening.

[dtacs]

T72 Vs Bradley. I used AP rounds to kill it in MP. The crew jumped out by accident, so I shot one of them with HE rounds. The other one jumped out in panic, and I shot HE at him as well. This was at the beginning of kashan, and there weren't any friendlies nearby. Pure AP rounds killed the tank.

Completely unrelated to the thread, stay on topic.

[Hunt3r]

I'm starting to suspect that armor needs some looking at, seeing as how vehicles seem to be rather lacking in protection compared to real world variants.

[manligheten]

The BTR60 need to hit the Bradley with 70 bullets before it explodes.
The Bradley need to hit the BTR60 with 67 granades.
(From the .con-files)

APC damage is seriusly wrong.

[Vision_16]

If you want realism, there should not really be a very very strong balance with APC's/vehicles because IRL, if you're in a much less armored or less powerful APC, and you see a tank, you GTFO. If you know your vehicle cannot compete with the other, you get out and call for support.

[Drunkenup]

The BTR60 need to hit the Bradley with 70 bullets before it explodes.
The Bradley need to hit the BTR60 with 67 granades.
(From the .con-files)

APC damage is seriusly wrong.

I'm guessing the grenades represent the HE rounds out of the Bradley's Bushmaster. I think that value might be wrong, since the Bushmaster on AP will take out a BMP in some 20 rounds. I conducted a test in local with the BTR-60 (which should have the same damage value as the BTR-80 with the 14.5mm KPV) and it took out a Bradley with about... 60 rounds to frontal armor. I can't say that the Bradley is completely immune from the 14.5, its like a A-10's 30mm cannon, one round doesn't have the capability to penetrate and kill the tank which is most likely resistant to 30mm and far higher calibers, but a bunch of rounds that hit the tank's armor and eventually after breaking through the armor, will kill the tank. But certain calibers a tank should be completely immune from, like small arms, like 5.56 and 7.62 should be less effective towards vehicles that are designed to stop it, such as high performance attack helicopters (the Havoc of which I disabled, destroyed with one clip of MG3). Those vehicles aren't exactly immune to 7.62, but are far more resistant than they are now ingame.

[Dev1200]

Completely unrelated to the thread, stay on topic.

Someone asked a question, so I thought I'd answer =l


Also, he said 14.5mm AP rounds shouldn't kill the bradley, yet 5mm more can kill a tank? Deeper thought.


I think the damages/armor should be reviewed. Perhaps re-tweaking all the vehicles to real-life spec. Thicker armor = More "health", so there should be a large gap between BTR60 and Bradley =\

[Hunt3r]

The goal here is to simulate the vehicle's HP points as the ability for it to go on and still carry out it's mission, basically it is a representative of functioning systems and damaged ones in a vehicle.

For example, take the M2A3 Bradley (We are supposing that this is actually in PR). We would give it a certain amount of HP, say, 4000. The armor properties to the frontal arc would be such that 14.5mm AP would either do insignificant damage, or none at all. However, if it were to be engaged by 30mm APDS, it would take 40 shots to take off half of the Bradley's health, which in practice would probably mean that the Bradley is tracked and since repair efforts are pretty much going to be impossible, you just have to ditch the vehicle then and there.

[Rudd]

make it impossible for it to be killed by 14.5mm AP.

well impossible is a word, I'd go for the world improbable, I doubt that because armour is rated against 14.5 doesn't mean it just pings off.

[Hunt3r]

The Bradley A3 model is protected against 30mm APDS to the frontal arc, so I think that 14.5mm AP would ping off, and pretty much all damage would come from spall.

14.5mm AP should really not be effective as it is. The LAV-25A2 should really have a decisive advantage to the point that it should be able to kill a BTR-60, a BRDM, and severely damage another BTR-60 to the point that they are tracked if they both start engaging at the same time.

In reality a single LAV-25 should really kill 3 BTR-60s and a BRDM if it runs into them, but there should at least be some semblance of balance.

[dtacs]

Someone asked a question, so I thought I'd answer =l

Are you implying that since a Bradley can penetrate a T-72, 14.5mm rounds should penetrate a Bradleys front armor? With more looking that I did, The latter is a possibility.

Also, he said 14.5mm AP rounds shouldn't kill the bradley, yet 5mm more can kill a tank? Deeper thought.

Try 10.5mm more actually.

/M2A1 / M3A1 Up to 14.5-mm HMG

Thats from global security. I'm not sure what model is in PR, but if its one of the two above then prolonged fire would surely do some sort of damage.

I can't find any details in regards to armor penetration for the M919 round that the Bradley fires, but the T-72's frontal turret armor is 280-mm.

[Drunkenup]

Are you implying that since a Bradley can penetrate a T-72, 14.5mm rounds should penetrate a Bradleys front armor? With more looking that I did, The latter is a possibility.

Try 10.5mm more actually.

Thats from global security. I'm not sure what model is in PR, but if its one of the two above then prolonged fire would surely do some sort of damage.

I can't find any details in regards to armor penetration for the M919 round that the Bradley fires, but the T-72's frontal turret armor is 280-mm.

We are using the M2A2/M3A2 if not A3 model.

From Global Security again,

"M2A2 / M3A2 Up to 30-mm cannon "