Falklands feedback general

[40mmrain]

Scimitar is exceptionally uncounterable in the night layer, its thermals make it a nightmare for Argentinians, the SPG and Bazooka are worthless enough, but at night it's impossible.

ARgentines lack deployable AA which they need. The heavy anti air missiles have a much to long lock time especially for their short range. I dont know if this is actually a glitch or not, but whenever I try to place an AA it simply will never come up, I get an infinitely repeating "place asset" message, basically. Other players have experienced the same thing.

British air power, and armour is superior. The guided GBUs are terribly useful if a proper sniper team is set up, and the argentines have no LGBs, this is plain imbalance, further still the argentine jets take longer to get back to their airbase, giving the brits a large advantage at being able to resupply. Finally, the exocet anti shipping mirage is hard to be useful after the conveyor is dead, which is really quite easy and doesnt require an exocet, once you've used your 2 AA-11 which could both miss, and evenif they hit close are not that useful (see jets dont bleed out below), and you would then have to fly for a few minutes to and from base rearming and such. I dont have a problem with rearming that takes a while, you can subvert this by using lots of guns, but the mirage with the exocet has no guns!

The huey only has 30 flares, the skyhawk 15. IS this intentional, it's half of what it normally is.

The skyraider's rudders act all wonky, makes it harder to make fine adjustments for CAS runs, hopefully the pucara is better.

Of every game i've played the british have won, everytime, all the flags just seem impossible to do defend, and the argentinians just get kind of wedged back into their main. I've tried tirelessly to dig in on teal, malo, and fitz, but we only get annihilated by CAS, of which we have nothing to defend against but the strela, which wont kill a harrier in one hit even if it lands right next to him, and jets dont bleed. We get blasted by the scimi from 1000m well out of the range of our own spg and HAT, mortars, of which there is no cover, and foxholes will get destroyed by. The only thing that could ever help is friendly jet support, but considering the time it takes for them to get to land, and the lack of any guided weapons it's incredibly difficult for the to do so, even if theyre trying to.

Reduce the sea harrier number by one, so the argentines have some air advantage, give them deployable AA, and they need some armour themselves.

jets dont bleed out, which is a little silly. I agree with slowing down the bleedout considerably, to the point where it's possible to make emergency landings, but it's also silly when you blast a jet with a missile, and he has fire shooting out his engine, but sees no drop in performance or anything, then lands at base 10 minutes later.

I noticed some strange damage values for certain guns. I managed to hit the chinook with at least 20 rounds of 20mm from the skyhawk's cannon and he barely smoking white. I also, was flying the huey from stanley to teal, and survived repeated gun and missile attacks from what felt like two harriers, I managed to take fire all the way and back only to blow up right in stanley. All choppers seem to have a strange amount of health.

It's just really painful to play infantry on this map, you feel so helpless. Most of the flags are really, just impossible to defend. Theyre tiny collections of houses youre packed into, subject to fire on all sides with no other cover. I dont know what can be done about that, it just feels very awkward and counter-intuitive fighting as inf, you just feel so unequipped and unable, and exposed, and out of control. I dont know if this can be helped, I dont know if it's bad or good, but it frustrates me. Every second you're dying, and being flanked, and being shot at with no cover from some direction. I played for hours and could never get properly dug in, or get a good fireline, or actually ever hold off an assault on a flag. Perhaps this is partly due to the overabundance of CAS and lack of counters for inf, combined with the actual small size of the east falkland, along with all the flags that need to be tended to at once. Teams become overextended, and flags are so close it's unfeasible to return fire, watch the sky for enemy CAS with your little MANPAD, and dig all at once. I might find it better when I have a 10 man squad, allowing me to have an AR, MG, grenadier and marksman laying down cover and smoke while 4 or 5 other men dig. I only found myself in the face of consistent overrunment when trying to defend, asking for shovels and suppression from everyone all at once. I wanted to attack but that would only leave the at least one of the two flags are usually need to be tended to undefended. As it stands it's only perpetually angering to be on the ground in the daylight. At night it's better for sure for inf. Maybe it's just new and no one is used to fighting on open ground like this, and we havent developed proper tactics for the maps, or maybe flag layers could be linearized.

[stifmyster1]

Agree with alot of those. There needs to be alot more cover and some extra buildings.

also with night maps they need to be brighter. more like yamalia in term of brightness. I had my contrast and brightness on max and still couldnt see my own gun.

[sweedensniiperr]

the night map is good. I've won with argies.

However, even though it's cool that you made the flag layout as close to real battle it's a bit derpy. Two flags to attack for brits first. Then one and two flags to defend. And then again two flags to attack.

Also our squad accidentally baseraped the british main, but it wasn't actually their main but a fixed spawnpoint a grid above their main, in a really strategic position.

[Rapid12]

Loving it so far. A reduction in jets is needed, or, alternatively, make use of the west island by putting in a couple of objectives there and including more transport choppers, that'll spread out jet attacks on infantry, which are very relentless.

The map is hard to read now because there's so much land to cram into the same space. Solution would be to allow better zoom, but I've a feeling such an obvious solution wouldn't have been merely overlooked by the Devs, so I guess it's 'hardcoded'.

I'm at A1, keypad 9, keypad 1. lol.

[pedrooo14]

I see a lot of round woned by Argentinian forces, some of them was a real beating and we (arg side) make a good and strong defend. I think it dependes a lot of the air support of each team and good SQL.

The huey only has 30 flares, the skyhawk 15. IS this intentional, it's half of what it normally is.

In the war, they don?t have any flares, or even a radar warning. So i think that number its ok to make a balanced but realistic fight.


One thing that i noticed, is that there is no apc for argentina. And we have Panhard light tanks, i know its in development but it would be great if dev?s can use a place holder. To make the thing more balanced.

[Rhino]

Scimitar is exceptionally uncounterable in the night layer, its thermals make it a nightmare for Argentinians, the SPG and Bazooka are worthless enough, but at night it's impossible.

Scimi is pretty powerful, need to increase its delayed spawn time and need to get an AML-90 for the Argies too.

ARgentines lack deployable AA which they need. The heavy anti air missiles have a much to long lock time especially for their short range. I dont know if this is actually a glitch or not, but whenever I try to place an AA it simply will never come up, I get an infinitely repeating "place asset" message, basically. Other players have experienced the same thing.

Shouldn't be like this, can anyone confirm?

British air power, and armour is superior. The guided GBUs are terribly useful if a proper sniper team is set up, and the argentines have no LGBs, this is plain imbalance

Seeing as there is only one jet that has a 20min delayed spawn with LGBs, and only the sniper the SOFLAMs, I haven't seen it be that effective myself yet.

Brits only get two other CAS jets which tbh I've not seen used to that much effectiveness yet, although I've found myself doing quite a successful gun runs on FB with the Sea Harrier.

further still the argentine jets take longer to get back to their airbase, giving the brits a large advantage at being able to resupply.

Argentine jets are faster and easier to land (although once you've sussed out how to vertically land the harrier well you can do it very quickly) but this was a fact of the battle.

Finally, the exocet anti shipping mirage is hard to be useful after the conveyor is dead, which is really quite easy and doesnt require an exocet, once you've used your 2 AA-11 which could both miss, and evenif they hit close are not that useful (see jets dont bleed out below), and you would then have to fly for a few minutes to and from base rearming and such. I dont have a problem with rearming that takes a while, you can subvert this by using lots of guns, but the mirage with the exocet has no guns!

30secs in it says the cannon needs to be removed. Although its not the Super Etendard ingame carrying the Exocet, the MIIIEA that is, is representing it and uses the same cannons, although not sure if the Mirage also needs its cannons removed on its version that can carry the Exocet but at the end of the day its a PH for the SE.

One of the big gameplay reasons for removing the cannon is also so the jet can't do a gun run on the AC after firing its exocet at it, which if it did it could sink the AC on its own without any help from any team mates.

While yes, you don't need the Exocet to sink the ship, and if the Argie bombers do concentrate on bombing it then it can be destroyed before it even spawns but hopefully harriers will do CAP over the AC more as time goes on. Also hopefully in the future we will have more ships to sink but no promises there, someone needs to make them and I don't have the time

As for it "only having 2 AA missiles", in r/l the SE didn't carry any AA weapons in with its exocet (although it is possible for it to do so) so I could remove them all together if you like
TBH I don't have the same problems of missing with missiles that you seem to.

The huey only has 30 flares, the skyhawk 15. IS this intentional, it's half of what it normally is.

the UH-1H not sure about but the Skyhawk didn't have any countermeasures in r/l, in fact during the war they retrofitted one by shoving a load of foil into the air brakes of the A-4 so that when they opened they would act like Chaff but this was only a one use thing and its reliability is questionable

The idea for the A-4 is to get in, drop its bombs and get out as quickly as possible. Although its quite a formidable figther in a gun fight and pretty much on par with the Harrier, still not a good idea to do so as if missiles come into play your done for

The skyraider's rudders act all wonky, makes it harder to make fine adjustments for CAS runs, hopefully the pucara is better.

Ye, having been able to fully fix that yet. Hopefully Jafar will nail it in the future

Of every game i've played the british have won, everytime, all the flags just seem impossible to do defend, and the argentinians just get kind of wedged back into their main. I've tried tirelessly to dig in on teal, malo, and fitz, but we only get annihilated by CAS, of which we have nothing to defend against but the strela, which wont kill a harrier in one hit even if it lands right next to him

I've found the Argentine infantry with there full auto FM FALs quite hard to brake though if they are defending, or even attacking. I think you've had one or two rounds where brits had full air superiority if your really heavily getting hammered by CAS. In the Open Betas Argentine forces where winning quite a lot, my guess is the biggest problem is no deployable AA if its not working as you've said.

We get blasted by the scimi from 1000m well out of the range of our own spg and HAT, mortars, of which there is no cover, and foxholes will get destroyed by. The only thing that could ever help is friendly jet support, but considering the time it takes for them to get to land, and the lack of any guided weapons it's incredibly difficult for the to do so, even if theyre trying to.

Ye, Scimi at range is quite a problem and ye, only thing to easily hit is is really CAS right now if its sitting really far out but dumb bombing, once you've gotten use to it can be very accurate and overall, Argeis get more ground attack aircraft than the Brits and they generally carry more bombs / rockets (4 common ground attack aircraft to the Brits 2 common and one uncommon).

Also if your asking for guided bombs/missiles for the Argies, they didn't have any (other than the Exocet )

jets dont bleed out, which is a little silly. I agree with slowing down the bleedout considerably, to the point where it's possible to make emergency landings, but it's also silly when you blast a jet with a missile, and he has fire shooting out his engine, but sees no drop in performance or anything, then lands at base 10 minutes later.

Umm, jets do bleed out.
A-1H: maxHitPoints 900, criticalDamage 350
A-4: maxHitPoints 900, criticalDamage 350
Dagger: maxHitPoints 1000, criticalDamage 350
Mirage IIIEA: maxHitPoints 1000, criticalDamage 350
Sea Harrier: maxHitPoints 900, criticalDamage 350
Harrier GR3: maxHitPoints 900, criticalDamage 350

I often find myself bailing out from my plane being on fire. BTW black smoke doesn't = fire, a big flame coming out the back = fire and jet is "bleeding".
You may also want some more pratice with missiles, if your constantly missing with them or they are not killing in one shot, you should note the angles you are to the enemy jet, the direction and speed of the enemy jets, and where the flares are and then how the missile reacted. I can pretty well judge before firing a missile if its going to hit. For example I know that if a Mirage 3 is heading up and slightly away from me, trying to turn towards me with loads of flares coming out of the rear, I can easily direct my missile just in front of him for it to avoid the flares, and get around a 90% chance of a hit, 70% chance killing him with a direct hit.

I noticed some strange damage values for certain guns. I managed to hit the chinook with at least 20 rounds of 20mm from the skyhawk's cannon and he barely smoking white. I also, was flying the huey from stanley to teal, and survived repeated gun and missile attacks from what felt like two harriers, I managed to take fire all the way and back only to blow up right in stanley. All choppers seem to have a strange amount of health.

They have the normal HP choppers have in PR, which is really, really bad. Chinook for example has a maxHitPoints of 1700, compared to the A-4s 900....

It's just really painful to play infantry on this map,.......

I think you need to change and develop your tactics to suit the open terrain and the assets you have available to you.

Also our squad accidentally baseraped the british main, but it wasn't actually their main but a fixed spawnpoint a grid above their main, in a really strategic position.

Was one of the landing beaches:

[pedrooo14]

30secs in it says the cannon needs to be removed. Although its not the Super Etendard ingame carrying the Exocet, the MIIIEA that is, is representing it and uses the same cannons, although not sure if the Mirage also needs its cannons removed on its version that can carry the Exocet but at the end of the day its a PH for the SE.

One of the big gameplay reasons for removing the cannon is also so the jet can't do a gun run on the AC after firing its exocet at it, which if it did it could sink the AC on its own without any help from any team mates.

While yes, you don't need the Exocet to sink the ship, and if the Argie bombers do concentrate on bombing it then it can be destroyed before it even spawns but hopefully harriers will do CAP over the AC more as time goes on. Also hopefully in the future we will have more ships to sink but no promises there, someone needs to make them and I don't have the time

As for it "only having 2 AA missiles", in r/l the SE didn't carry any AA weapons in with its exocet (although it is possible for it to do so) so I could remove them all together if you like
TBH I don't have the same problems of missing with missiles that you seem to.

When SUE is carring exocet, cant use cannons, aa missiles, absolutly nothing. Its only an air plataform for exocet.

[Rhino]

When SUE is carring exocet, cant use cannons, aa missiles, absolutly nothing. Its only an air plataform for exocet.

While yes, the Super Etendard was never fitted with both AA missiles and an Exocet missile during the war, it is very possible for it to carry AA weapons with an Exocet.

[40mmrain]

ok thanks for the reply rhino.

yes im certain we cant make stationary AA I tried quite a few times. I think we just need to play more games and devise better infantry tactics, supplemented with AA.

Also jets do not bleed, i've seen this multiple times. I flew back to argentina with my mirage's engine on fire, and to the invincible with black smoke many times, these are perhaps glitches.

[MrTomRobs]

ok thanks for the reply rhino.

yes im certain we cant make stationary AA I tried quite a few times. I think we just need to play more games and devise better infantry tactics, supplemented with AA.

Also jets do not bleed, i've seen this multiple times. I flew back to argentina with my mirage's engine on fire, and to the invincible with black smoke many times, these are perhaps glitches.

I'm not entirely sure about the whole jets not bleeding out issue - i played a good few rounds on the VW server last night and got tagged by cannon fire a good few times but managed to get away but i was only able to make it back as far as port stanley before i saw flames in the rear view camera.

[Pvt.LHeureux]

Rhin0, you should add some trenches statics, like small ones, to simulate that troops dug in foxholes/trenches recently. So we can have some covers... But since it's Mesh terrain, I don't know how you can do that :S

[40mmrain]

I'm not entirely sure about the whole jets not bleeding out issue - i played a good few rounds on the VW server last night and got tagged by cannon fire a good few times but managed to get away but i was only able to make it back as far as port stanley before i saw flames in the rear view camera.

I will try to verify repeatability, and isolate incidental variables that would affect that, ill be on tonight.

On multiple occasions I managed to fly back to base with black smoke, or with a burning engine, I also witnessed other jets dancing around with lots of smoke pouring out the back. I believe this occurred on the CIA server, on the STD layout.

Rhin0, you should add some trenches statics, like small ones, to simulate that troops dug in foxholes/trenches recently. So we can have some covers... But since it's Mesh terrain, I don't know how you can do that :S

if this is impossible, the same way grass is then so be it. COuld a possible workaround be instantly built deployable foxholes, as opposed to ones requiring digging, to simulate already dug in trenches? FOxholes would be really useful on this map, ESPECIALLY if theyre changed such that CAS doesnt annihilate them.

[Rhino]

Rhin0, you should add some trenches statics, like small ones, to simulate that troops dug in foxholes/trenches recently. So we can have some covers... But since it's Mesh terrain, I don't know how you can do that :S

Its possible to do yes, but would take quite a lot of work and rework of the terrain, UVs, textures and LMs to do.

if this is impossible, the same way grass is then so be it. COuld a possible workaround be instantly built deployable foxholes, as opposed to ones requiring digging, to simulate already dug in trenches? FOxholes would be really useful on this map, ESPECIALLY if theyre changed such that CAS doesnt annihilate them.

Ye this is something I may add, like I've got the deployable HMG nest that you can build at Goose Green.

Biggest problem thou for both this and building trenches into the terrain is due to the small scale of the map, there isn't really any places to put them in terms of where the defences where.

I will try to verify repeatability, and isolate incidental variables that would affect that, ill be on tonight.

On multiple occasions I managed to fly back to base with black smoke, or with a burning engine, I also witnessed other jets dancing around with lots of smoke pouring out the back. I believe this occurred on the CIA server, on the STD layout.

What jet have you managed to make back to base once on fire?

Black smoke doesn't always = bleeding. Flames however dose = bleeding.

On the Mirage for example, which has a max HP of 1000, at 350 HP "bleeding" will occour. At 750 HP for white smoke. 500 HP however is the time you get "black smoke" (still above critical damage HP) and at 100 HP you have fire (well under the critical damage mark). This should be true for pretty much all jets and if you can find a jet that isn't bleeding when on fire, please let me know.


PS. Pvt.LHeureux while my game name ingame is Rhin0, this is due to BF2 not letting make an account called [R-DEV]Rhino, instead I had to use the 0 ingame to make the account. Otherwise its just Rhino

[PLODDITHANLEY]

Are we sure the scimitar had thermals in 1982? Seems early.

I've got no idea and the intrewebz don't help but gime a few days I could find out.

[Rhino]

Are we sure the scimitar had thermals in 1982? Seems early.

I've got no idea and the intrewebz don't help but gime a few days I could find out.

No it didn't, the old Scimi used back then as mentioned above only had a NV sight, which proved to be very useful during the battles it was involved in ye, no Thermals, they have just been left on for now since its using the same scimi thats in normal PR and need to fix the NV shaders before we can put that on so Thermals have been left on to act in its place

[40mmrain]

right, well I did manage to fly a mirage variant all the way back to argentina before, while ablaze, I will try and repeat this and verify.

[Rhino]

right, well I did manage to fly a mirage variant all the way back to argentina before, while ablaze, I will try and repeat this and verify.

I think I've just seen the problem. In the Anti-Ship version of the M3EA, its got:

Code: Select all

ObjectTemplate.armor.hpLostWhileCriticalDamage 0

Ie, isn't taking any damage when in critical damage with that setting, should be 15...

Dagger also had this issue but the main M3EA didn't.

Cheers!

[Rhino]

British air power, and armour is superior. The guided GBUs are terribly useful if a proper sniper team is set up, and the argentines have no LGBs,

Has anyone else found this an issue too? So far haven't heard anyone else complain about this but if anyone has found this really OP too please say and to anyone who think its fine as it is please say too

[Lange]

I will post some pics in the bugs thread but can confirm what rain is saying with the deployable, AA however to be it seemed to deploy but be invisible, as I walked over it a few times but was really buggy lagging my soldier into the ground, possibly pushing a squadmate below ground etc. Also issues with invisible objects in buildings but took some screenshots in a game and will put in the bugthread.

Found my gameplay as Argentina so far to be a absolute rapefest by armor and CAS as infantry. its frustrating as hell and damn near impossible as Argentina as it is now, as other than CAS they have **** AT (Bazooka and LAT have really short range and as wipeopen and uncovered as the map is at the moment you will rarely get a chance to even engage the armor before your seen and shot to bits). So far its not uncommon for the British Scimi crews to get 60-70 kills during a round which is INSANE I rarely ever saw that with armor in normal PR even on INS with a tank. Its just beyond rediculous right now, the scimi either needs to be removed until it can be nerfed abeit realistically(no thermal cannon zoom reduced smaller ammo etc) or something else done.

With the CAS with the huge amount of jets and no cover and only 2 Handheld AA kits its also a nightmare as infantry. Being on any flag trying to defend or any focused area the Jets can just bomb and gun down with a blind eye your screwed, plain and simple. Not fun and frustrating as hell. I agree with 40mmrain entirely, several occassions just wanted to give up and quit because of the hopelessness. This never happened in normal PR to this scale because of how few Jet assets there are even on CAS maps not to mention tons of AA cover etc to counter.

[40mmrain]

not sure how many people actually know the british have LGBs, actually, but usually when I have my fobs set up, we can kind of spread out and avoid dummies and rockets because of how hard it is to provide manual CAS or interdiction. HOwever, due to lack of squad leader SOFLAM to counter laze, and deployable AA I found my fobs getting continually earthshaken by the LGBs. This is probably another point that deployable AA (medium too?) could help quell.

I think the mod demands more time to assess, and people have gotten a bad first impression due to player ignorance. FOr example, most players had no idea the brits even had a scimitar, and never thought about trying to counter it leading to racking up 70 kills quite easily, this happened a few times. Players also neglect the fact that the sniper is the only holder of the SOFLAM, and players will regularly play by themselves, with a sniper kit (I have no clue why, the rifle isnt all that useful, which is fine, because the SOFLAM is more than enough to make the kit useful). Further the amount of jets has seemed to overwhelm some of our less.. observant players, and regularly you'll see people in infantry squads just take up a plane without even asking. Trans is neglected, the idea of air cover is lost upon seemingly all jet squad leaders who never seem to come to terms with the massive importance they hold, including the fact that theyre the only asset that is capable of offending against the scimitar, the HAT and SPG are strictly defensive weapons that are very hard to utilize. Will the recoilless the argentinians receive in the future perhaps have some sandbags for cover, and a quicker turn radius?

All in all, to quote moose, "falklands has made everyone retarded".

Players havent adapted yet, and the problem is I dont think the less observant players actually recognize this. The squad leaders are the corner stone of every project reality match, if there are no squad leaders the game is garbage, people just wander around big maps by themselves doing nothing, and is it stands the dramatically different nature of falklands has made squad leading quite difficult for any one, in fact, it's rare to even have a leader for the jet squads, most often jet leaders just kind of say do whatever, contrary to popular armour or helicopter tactics displayed in the usual PR. This has caused people to start to adapt a disliking of this new map. People dont know what theyre doing and blame the game. People are playing the game wrong. It's like calling chess **** because you dont know what the pieces do.

SOme of my more inflammatory points that ive made are probably a result of this. As it stands some glitches, and balance issues continue, however the core of this radically different take on project reality is going to be a lot more playable, once people learn through trial, error and experience. I can only hope that players dont develop a distaste for the map, and it becomes rarely played, that would be disappointing, but as 1.0 comes out and falklands has some fixes, im sure players will be inclined to play it more.

Oh yeah, and the absolute zero zoom of the stationary machine guns has rendered them ineffective. As infantry you can practice "pop up and down" tactics, and move around. As a machine gunner you have no fire advantage, as being to target properly is everything, and youre completely static. Everytime I've tried to utilize one, i've been on it just looking as hard as I can for the enemy, only to take shots and be forced off it or killed. A full 10x zoom or whatever is on the current PR machine gun would upset the fact that all arms in general have shorter effective ranges, however a nice 3 times or something would be REALLY nice.