Brecourt Assault Feedback

[Mongolian_dude]

Had a great time last night, most things seem right as they are.

The MG issue

MG42s PWN it hard right now, especially since the US cant capitulate with their BARs (automatic rifle, not even a true MG). I would suggest that the new features of the coming PR1.0 are exploited and efforts are directed to implementing a Browning 30.Cal for the US Machine Gunner Kit, in much the same fashion as it will be in the main game.
Furthermore, Ze German could receive an MG34 for the autorifleman role, which would have a lower ammo count. I understand that modelling a new weapon sux, so a retexturing an MG42 (paint a wooden stock on it lol) with much smaller box size would be great.


Actung! Panzer....sperre!
I hear far too many complaints that Tanks need greater mobility, with shermans being stranded all over the place and having to be WP by their own team. Perhaps a little more traction/torque for those tracks to get over those berms. Also, the Sherman's HUD states the Coax ammo count as Main Gun ammo count, and visa versa. They need to be switched around.

Marksmen
Havent tried German Marksman, but a Gerwehr 43 might make a nice addition, perhaps with a Zf39(x4 magnification) or Zf42(x5 magnification) optic, however with no binocs to compensate as the US marksman obviously will not have any optic but instead binocs. Perhaps increasing the US marksman's M1Garand accuracy and range slightly for this purpose. Or an M1903 Springfield without a scope (less realistic, methinks)?


Mapping Wise

I think the US shouldnt be forced to take the Crossroads and gameplay would benefit from removing this from the Cap Order. I understand the tactical importance of this point on the map -it would have been key for the US to control it as a highway for armour, but I think this should be the teams choice/fault, so they decide their own fate. It means that the US team has to split its forces to defend the poorly defensible Crossroads and attack a very defensible flag such as Bunkers. No fair and ends in stalemate with little map progression.

Ze Germans currently have a very good headstart on the US. Perhaps they should have an RP that lasts 2mins at the Crossroads flag (hopefully ex-flag) ?

More events, I want to play this right now.
4 stars out of 5


...mongol...

[Kloppies]

I totally agree with what mongol said ^^

Removing crossroads as a capturable flag will enable more americans to set up FOBs in better positions and attack the german flags. Because the germans have very good defensive positions, 2 german flags should be capturable at a time as AfterDune said in order to split their manpower.

[AfterDune]

Removing crossroads altogether could work as well, yeah. It's worth a shot I guess.

[Mineral]

I believe some of the compounds in the middle can also serve as flags in the AASv4 routes. Like the barn with the plane inside. All flags are mostly at the map borders, which makes the team use the same flanking routes all the time.

The hedgerows are not really fixable much I believe, if you want to make them easier they will be too wide. But all roads have to be checked for misplaced OG and all roads need their terrain smooth-end.

The yellow fields have a bit to much orange in them I believe.

Also the terrain detail texture sometimes doesn't match the UG. for example on lots of places you have this low density grass ug with what seems like a rocky detail terrain texture. It doesn't make sense. Also the ug looks artificial in many places because it has a totally different color then the terrain color beneath.

There are also quite a few ditches and holes that you can't get out from. But that's why we have these tests

I think you did an excellent job at bringing the initial concept (not an easy concept) to a great result. The map is brilliant in many ways. If all these little problems are removed then I think that PR:N has a map that really resembles what PR:N should be.

Also the spawnpoint at brecourt is best to be removed. But I have to agree that removing crossroads as a flag would also deal with this issue.

The roads near the german main are also impossible. I think it's better to link the german main with a good straight road to the other main roads. Because now it takes forever to go back to the german main.

[Smiddey723]

Overall my thoughts on this map were very positive.
The gameplay obviously needs tweaking, bunker hill is just impossible without mortars and favors the defenders far to much. The flag should be moved further east possibly.

Another thing which has been mentioned to death is the roads. They either need to be widened or more smooth with no trees growing in the middle of them.

The flag layout also makes no sense, needs AASv4 imo. Possibly something like this


Just my thoughts, after a few of these minor issues are addressed the map will be excellent

[sweedensniiperr]

i'm gonna mentions that have already been mentioned, deal with it.

map need a lot of polish, floating things the hedges look awful, they need to look natural not choppy triangular.

i understand what you are trying to do with the hedges, just like in fh2, but they need to be smaller or gone. you should be able to drive across and walk across them.

as a ww2-nerd i find the lack of military presence very annoying. brecourt manor, this place has only one trench, if it was a strategic place the germans would have put alot more defenses around it that just a trench. it would also been bombed alot prior to an allied assault. well, say manor isn't the target for the the allies the main town to the south SHOULD have more military stuff around and in it. should probably be quite bombed aswell. i see a few destroyed houses and some rubble but nothing else, the bombs weren't hitting exactly where they should? details man.

crossroads, here it's fine, it's just a crossroad not really some strategic place. I think this should stay quite empty.

the thing i'm getting at is that..you need to make up your mind about these things. think of a backtstory, what would the soldiers really do in these situations. if you say brecourt is the most strategic place on the map, fine. but make it so and exaggerate, lot of trenches, lot of crates.

flags. i think this is pretty fine but i think that there should be atleast some neutral flags in the beginning. maybe also one less flags overall?

there's some more things that bug me with the immersion but i guess i'm just being very picky..

[PLODDITHANLEY]

Someone posted this on PRTA:



Go to 4:05 for bugged tank

I question the placements of the two mains on the same side wouldn't it be better all round if they were on opposite sides?

[Kevokpo]

AfterDune;1827310']
[*]Random thought, we could also make the flags unable to be recapped...?

I agree with these one, maybe not all the flags but the first two US flags should not be recappable in my opinion, just like Op. Overlord

[rodrigoma]

yes , we need to find a way that makes the map balanced for the US , removing crossroads is a good idea, and the brecourt spawn aswell, maybe leaving the bunker hill spawn or make it is Forward outpost for the germans

im sorry but you will never be able to driver or walk thorugh some hedges, its how i want things to work, i will add some more roads out of the mains and connecting the fiedls ( many times I saw tanks and jeeps trying to go through a completely impossible hedge whe they had a road just 5 metres away) people in pr just arent used to use roads for anything as the all the other terrain is usable just aswell

tanks need some kind of fixing as they have problems with traction and should be a bit faster as 40mm said
some german weapons are also way OP and need to be toned down a bit, for me only the shermans gave the US a bit of advantage

the lighting need to be a bit fixed to make the fields a tiny bit less bright
UG needs to be changed in some fields,
OG had lots of problems, some weird thing happened with the generation i guess

Im thinking also about giving the US a forward rally point where they cant spawn soemwhere west from their main

[rodrigoma]

i'm gonna mentions that have already been mentioned, deal with it.

map need a lot of polish, floating things the hedges look awful, they need to look natural not choppy triangular.

i understand what you are trying to do with the hedges, just like in fh2, but they need to be smaller or gone. you should be able to drive across and walk across them.

as a ww2-nerd i find the lack of military presence very annoying. brecourt manor, this place has only one trench, if it was a strategic place the germans would have put alot more defenses around it that just a trench. it would also been bombed alot prior to an allied assault. well, say manor isn't the target for the the allies the main town to the south SHOULD have more military stuff around and in it. should probably be quite bombed aswell. i see a few destroyed houses and some rubble but nothing else, the bombs weren't hitting exactly where they should? details man.

crossroads, here it's fine, it's just a crossroad not really some strategic place. I think this should stay quite empty.

the thing i'm getting at is that..you need to make up your mind about these things. think of a backtstory, what would the soldiers really do in these situations. if you say brecourt is the most strategic place on the map, fine. but make it so and exaggerate, lot of trenches, lot of crates.

flags. i think this is pretty fine but i think that there should be atleast some neutral flags in the beginning. maybe also one less flags overall?

there's some more things that bug me with the immersion but i guess i'm just being very picky..

do you have any references for brecourt defences?
i dont know if you ahve noticed but there is a huge trench system just north of it
brecourt manor wasnt really the objective the gun emplacements where, i should have had placed a flag in the trenches though so I agree on that

[Pvt.LHeureux]

Glad you guys liked that, it was awesome, we'll get to fix the bugs and stuff, thanks for the feedback

[Pvt.LHeureux]

Mods can you merge this to the Normandy forums please? Thanks.

[Heavy Death]

ALso the grass somewhere on the SW border up to the Bunker Hill is dissapearing infront of you... its like some greyish grass. Dont know the exact location.

[Pvt.LHeureux]

Yeah I know what you mean HD, those statics fields need to be removed, they feel really out of place and have that disappearing bug.

[Psyko]

Serious feedback:

I loved it. I thought the sherman was clunky but i know its still wip.

The hedgerows are amazing!!! They remind me so much of Ireland, becuase the fields in ireland are so close to how they are in france at that time. Farmers own little plots unlike places like America where you have superfarms.

A lot of the hedgerows should not be passable, If you can YOU REALLY SHOULD put invisible barbed wire inside them if possible. I know barbed wire is a networkable but if there is any way of creating a damaging mechanism in place it would make a huge difference. As a kid i used to explore the countryside a lot and spend hours every day going around the fields with my dirtbike. I would look all along the hedges to find gaps, and basically hedges are between 8 and 14 feet thick, a lot bigger at the base than the top, lots of nettles and briers and if you fall in, it will tear your hands and face. it happened me a few times. Even if your a soldier and you lose your footing trying to traverse one your going to be extremely uncomfortable for the rest of the day. and there is no way for a person to get through a hedgerow, especially the older ones.

Hedgerows in real life are almost impossible to get through, its difficult for people who live in cities to know about this but if anybody grew up in european countrysides you would know there are some ubiquitous features that have been neglected. Firstly, along most hedges on the field side there are drains, these drain the water from streams, gullies and from rain off the fields and also provide drinking water for livestock, they usually pool at field corners and cows tramp accross them opening up ditches to other fields, these are the most common types of openings in hedges. the other type is where two hedge trees didnt cover enough distance so cows get through over bumps, the openings typically arent that wide but go down, up, down, with grass worn away on the breach. Openings in hedgerows are created by livestock, when people make openings its the farmers and they quickly close them over with gates.

Hedges arent naturally formed, farmers create them as a natural divide between property. it only take a couple of years to grow to full height, but before they grow they first fence the perimeter, and dig a narrow trench then allow the trees to grow.

In WW2 hedge warfare was so difficult that they had to strap tank traps to the front of tanks to tear through them as infantry typically just couldnt get through. So getting through the hedges in game should be extremely difficult. it is a factor in normandy that is well documented.

Theres some deep "potholes" in a lot of the fields that are covered by undergrowth such as corn. They are so deep you can stand in them and your head is clear of the ground.

Lastly, The tanks have trouble getting through most hedges due to the large Humps of terrain masked by the trees. Though it doesnt matter strategically how this effects tanks, it must be as realistic as possible, so if tanks can get through most hedges in real life then they should be able to easily traverse those humps. I would love to see stronger engines in the shermans, keep the slow speed but greater force if that is possible.

Thanks for reading

[40mmrain]

around brecourt, theres a huge sinkhole at the stables that people fall into easily, probably should try and do something about that.

[Pvt.LHeureux]

Post screenshot of bugs such as holes covered with fields.

The sinkhole at Brecourt is known and to be fixed, some people get suck in it too lol.

[PLODDITHANLEY]

some people get suck in it too lol.

Wow better leave that one then

[AfterDune]

Well said, Psyko, that's exactly how it is. I don't mind if tanks can get through some hedges, they just need more power or something. I'm not that good with vehicle coding, so if anyone knows how to have better friction or something....

[Mongolian_dude]

Serious feedback:

I loved it. I thought the sherman was clunky but i know its still wip.

The hedgerows are amazing!!! They remind me so much of Ireland, becuase the fields in ireland are so close to how they are in france at that time. Farmers own little plots unlike places like America where you have superfarms.

A lot of the hedgerows should not be passable, If you can YOU REALLY SHOULD put invisible barbed wire inside them if possible. I know barbed wire is a networkable but if there is any way of creating a damaging mechanism in place it would make a huge difference. As a kid i used to explore the countryside a lot and spend hours every day going around the fields with my dirtbike. I would look all along the hedges to find gaps, and basically hedges are between 8 and 14 feet thick, a lot bigger at the base than the top, lots of nettles and briers and if you fall in, it will tear your hands and face. it happened me a few times. Even if your a soldier and you lose your footing trying to traverse one your going to be extremely uncomfortable for the rest of the day. and there is no way for a person to get through a hedgerow, especially the older ones.

Hedgerows in real life are almost impossible to get through, its difficult for people who live in cities to know about this but if anybody grew up in european countrysides you would know there are some ubiquitous features that have been neglected. Firstly, along most hedges on the field side there are drains, these drain the water from streams, gullies and from rain off the fields and also provide drinking water for livestock, they usually pool at field corners and cows tramp accross them opening up ditches to other fields, these are the most common types of openings in hedges. the other type is where two hedge trees didnt cover enough distance so cows get through over bumps, the openings typically arent that wide but go down, up, down, with grass worn away on the breach. Openings in hedgerows are created by livestock, when people make openings its the farmers and they quickly close them over with gates.

Hedges arent naturally formed, farmers create them as a natural divide between property. it only take a couple of years to grow to full height, but before they grow they first fence the perimeter, and dig a narrow trench then allow the trees to grow.

In WW2 hedge warfare was so difficult that they had to strap tank traps to the front of tanks to tear through them as infantry typically just couldnt get through. So getting through the hedges in game should be extremely difficult. it is a factor in normandy that is well documented.

Theres some deep "potholes" in a lot of the fields that are covered by undergrowth such as corn. They are so deep you can stand in them and your head is clear of the ground.

Lastly, The tanks have trouble getting through most hedges due to the large Humps of terrain masked by the trees. Though it doesnt matter strategically how this effects tanks, it must be as realistic as possible, so if tanks can get through most hedges in real life then they should be able to easily traverse those humps. I would love to see stronger engines in the shermans, keep the slow speed but greater force if that is possible.

Thanks for reading

Project Reality Hedge Adviser


...mongol...