Portable.Cougar wrote:
One of the first changes made to BF2 with PR mini-mod v0.1 was to increase weapon damage. The effect made PR brutal, and more deadly. It forced players to really think about crossing an open road. The change made gameplay more realistic. The reason we have been playing PR for more than a decade and still love to play it is because it forces realistic gameplay. PR forces us to think, communicate, and act as a team to win. That is the spirit of PR.
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This patch makes gameplay unrealistic and unbalanced. Standard rifles are ineffective at medium and long ranges, movement is restricted because of the return of 1 hit incapacitations, and certain factions are seriously unbalanced.
This patch does make ballistics more realistic on paper, but It does so by making terminal ballistics more unrealistic in outcome. We appreciate the work done by the Devs in adding new content to the game. Damage drop off at range might be a good idea, but we believe that there are unintended consequences of the change to infantry weapons damage as implemented.
1.4.8 Forces Unrealistic Gameplay
Before this patch, with an M4, or an AK74, or an AK47 one could effectively incapacitate an enemy player wearing body armor. In 1.4.8 the player cannot do this; because they must make 4 hits to the chest at 300m, on a moving target, in a few seconds.
With this patch, we no longer have to think before crossing a road. The danger is gone at medium ranges.
There is one exception to this for small arms in the machine gun and other 7.62x51mm weapons. So, all a squad need do is make sure there is not a machine gun. If there is no machine gun, the squad can have a leisurely stroll across whatever distant open field or road or river they wish. Each player absorbing three bullets or more as they do. At a minimum, any player in this patch can usually get to cover before being hit by round 4. The game is now less about fire and move, and more about knowing how far the enemy is and counting how many times you have been shot.
In effect, any enemy that shoots at the squad at distance with a standard rifle is ineffective, and only reveals their position. So, no intelligent player with a standard weapon will shoot at distance. There is a mantra we use when we squad lead ”Don’t shoot at it if you can’t kill or suppress it”. We are now in the position of telling everyone not to shoot. The unrealism of a rifle being ineffective at 300m, or even 600m, should be obvious.
At long range, the numbers speak for themselves. Every standard issue rifle takes 5 or more shots to incapacitate an armored player in the chest at 600m. Russia’s standard rifle takes 11 shots. At long range, standard rifles are completely ineffective. Unless you have a G3, which maintains pre-patch damage values with the 7.62x51mm round, except at close range which is 1 hit to incapacitate to the pelvis and unarmored torso.
While most long range engagements are made ineffective using standard rifles, 7.62x51 damage values make most engagements too deadly. One hit kills to the pelvis and unarmored targets makes movement ineffective, because a player will use the advantage of 7.62x51 and stay in one place, waiting for the 1 hit kill opportunity. The player without the advantage of 7.62x51 damage values will not move at all when threatened by it. We witnessed this happen last time 1 hit kills were possible with headshots. It drastically changed gameplay for the worse. This patch has simultaneously made long range fire mostly ineffective, and movement to contact ineffective.
1.4.8 is Unbalanced
The MEC standard rifle vs the NATO standard rifle is the starkest example of this patch making PR unbalanced. Kashan is one of the oldest maps still on rotation, and still very popular. On Kashan, at any range, the G3 does more damage. At 50m, 2 shots to the chest incapacitate vs. 3 shots from the M16. At 300m, 2 shots vs 4. At 600m, 4 shots vs 7 from the M16. Any discussion of rate of fire or recoil seems to us to be a non-argument given these numbers, but some think it is a good argument, so we will address it.
On Kashan engagements occur between the bunkers, and from the bunkers to the mountains, so always more than 300m. A BLUFOR rifleman at north bunkers must hit a MEC rifleman on south bunkers 4x in the chest to incapacitate him, while the MEC rifleman needs 2 hits only. More importantly than unbalancing damage, this allows mec an unfair advantage in their freedom of movement from cover to cover. Movement and fire are the cornerstone of infantry combat in PR.
Unarmored targets are even more unbalanced. Again, the numbers speak for themselves, but for effect: On Sbeneh, a G3 1 shot incap to chest at 50m vs AK47s 2 shots; 2 shots at 300m vs 4 shots (or if the unarmored player has 10% damage from a fall, 1 shot incap from G3 at 300m); and 2 shots to kill at 600m. The rebel rifleman would have to hit the MEC player 10 times to incap at 600m.
RU vs NATO and RU vs IDF are the only maps balanced in this patch, given the relative similarities in damage values between 5.56x45 and 5.45x39. Devs should play closer attention to these maps. Clearly MEC and unarmored faction maps are unbalanced.
Recommendations
Change the damage values back to the old incapacitate values. 1.4.8 infantry damage changes are not just a content update, they are a gameplay and balance change, and should be treated as such. Neither gameplay or balance needed drastic fixing before.
PR is realism in gameplay, not in detail. 1.4.8 has made gameplay unrealistic and unbalanced.
That said, If you will not roll back the changes entirely, we suggest that you make the following adjustments:
Changes that make standard rifles slightly less effective at longer range is a gameplay change that may have positive effects on gameplay realism. It must however be balanced between factions, and if damages at longer ranges are left as drastically low as they are in 1.4.8, gameplay will remain unrealistic as detailed in this post.
Dmg suggested for all standard Rifles, Squad MGs, and Marksman:
Minimum 2 hits to incap at any range.
Maximum 2 hits at 50m.
Maximum 3 hits at 300m.
Maximum 4 hits at 600m.
Summary
This patch misunderstands the spirit and intent of Project Reality. PR is and has always been about Reality in effect and gameplay. This patch is reality in detail and on paper.
1.4.8 has made PR unrealistic and unbalanced.
Please:
Decrease all damage values drastically for 7.62x51 in standard rifles (G3, FAL, M14).
Remove the one shot incapacitate for all weapons (except possibly sniper rifles).
Increase damage for 5.45x39, 5.56x45, and 7.62x39, especially at range.
Increase damage for pistol and SMG rounds at close range.
Increase damage for buckshot at close range.
Thank you,
A bunch of guys still waiting for Fast Ropes.
