Project Reality v0.874C Open Gameplay Beta : Part 2

[corp_calqluslethal]

Well im 32 years old and my opinion is the rally point 30 second time change is plain dumb. Placing outposts allows for members to be exposed to APC's infantry etc. A rally point is much better strategy in lots of cases. Not to mention the AAS concept of the game. If your all way at the docks and you have to retreat all the way to mosque because some dumb rally point rule, and your whole team fb has been destroyed in north city. Wow great AAS a simple incendinary can stop a whole army. That was dumb Devs. Sorry but just an older player helping to correct your thinking. You should be able to see what i'm trying to say if you have open ears not closed.

Not one to be a ungrateful player. I love this game and all you guys do. The positive far out weighs the negative when it comes to the amount of fun you have brought a lot of players. But the negatives of the rally point 30s far out weighs the positive. I personally don't like building fire bases cause it exposes my squad to the enemy while they are busy. I build if i have to but i don't care about the fb points etc. I care about winning not points from fire bases.

I can adapt to the changes but you just turned tides in favor of the enemy : (

[LeChuckle]

"Well im 32 years old and my opinion is the rally point 30 second time change is plain dumb"

you know what they changed from right?

[ChiefRyza]

I can adapt to the changes but you just turned tides in favor of the enemy : (

Huh?

You realise your enemies are at the same disadvantage as you lol?

[Tannhauser]

What I find currently is that falling back will be a more effective move.
It will also prevent squad leaders from tardrushing and getting killed first (seeing as they're the only way a fall back action can be performed with RP).
It's also a better representation of the term ''Rally Point''.

Current modifications as much as those from 0.874B makes gameplay more oriented towards teamwork on larger scale. If you're unhappy that you can't defend yourself when building an FOB, then it should of been up to the commander or the other squads to be there to back you up while you fortify.

The best layout for conventional warfare in PR is to have squads together watching eachothers back while armored assets provide firesupport.

However, this won't work for insurgency.. It seems Insurgency being as it is, gives a severe advantage to defenders (insurgents/talibans). The only way to adapt in such situations is to either overwhelm defenders with infantry and armored firesupport, or to divide and try to multiply the chances of hitting a less defended/undefended cache.

With that, maybe the increment of present caches from 2 to 3 would make it more possible for BLUFOR to win, altho it's just an idea and might be a flawed one for many reasons.

[PLODDITHANLEY]

Interesting ....

Sounds good, having an emergency RP available which obliges squad cohesion as it will only be there for 30 seconds. (please put a decent/long delay or numerical limit per map before it can de replaced - so it is really a fallback). Hopefully would only be used when really needed otherwise use FOBs.

The placement of FOBs is still vital for the WHOLE teams benefit and success.

Btw I am even older than 32 but don't see what thats got to do with it!

[Rudd]

It was our intention from the start of this beta to run these 2 configs, we hope everyone tries both.

are the R-DEV team considering running hte no-FBs later as a hardcore mode to run alongside the RP softcore mode?

that would be ok imo, but I'd always stick to no-RPs, RPs make squads too insular, you can have great squad tactics but lousy team tactics, but tbh in that state you might as well play skirmish maps with one squad vs another squad.

FBs etc encourage teams to stay together, have a squad on your flank, you need to move forward? ask that squad to cover you, you're getting ahead now, Stop, tell the rear squad what is happening and that you'll hold for them to catch up etc.

Maybe there should be a team rally point that requires the presence of 3 squad leaders to set

[ChiefRyza]

are the R-DEV team considering running hte no-FBs later as a hardcore mode to run alongside the RP softcore mode?

that would be ok imo, but I'd always stick to no-RPs, RPs make squads too insular, you can have great squad tactics but lousy team tactics, but tbh in that state you might as well play skirmish maps with one squad vs another squad.

FBs etc encourage teams to stay together, have a squad on your flank, you need to move forward? ask that squad to cover you, you're getting ahead now, Stop, tell the rear squad what is happening and that you'll hold for them to catch up etc.

Maybe there should be a team rally point that requires the presence of 3 squad leaders to set

Far bloody out, I just thought of how cool* getting 3 full squads together to make a rally would be!

[mat552]

The lack of definition of "close" is troubling. Any word on how far that actually is?

Also looking forward to it, middle ground here I come! (after work)

[Heskey]

The new additions in v0.874C are:

1. Squad Rally Points expire after 30s from being placed.
2. Rally Points cannot be placed with enemies close.
3. Limited infantry kits require a squad of 3 to be requested (Automatic Rifleman, Medic, Grenadier, Rifleman AT and Marksman).

Hi Jaymz,

A few questions:

1.) How close do enemies need to be to prevent RP placement?
2.) If an RP is placed and enemies approach, will it disappear as it used to or will it now re-require a knife?
3.) How many squad members are required to have an Officer kit?
4.) How many squad members are required to place a RP and how close must they be to the Officer?
5.) You say 3 SM's to REQUEST kits; does that also include spawning with the medic/Auto rifle squad? When starting up servers, or when most other squads are full/locked it's advantageous that a 2 man squad has an officer and a medic, rather than going out into the field to die.

[Myru]

Placing outposts allows for members to be exposed to APC's infantry etc. A rally point is much better strategy in lots of cases. Not to mention the AAS concept of the game. If your all way at the docks and you have to retreat all the way to mosque because some dumb rally point rule, and your whole team fb has been destroyed in north city. Wow great AAS a simple incendinary can stop a whole army.

That's exactly what's gonna happen if ppl continue to play in the uncoordinated fashion which can be seen many times in PRs current version.
With the new RP-Rule, FBs will become a high important objectiv to defend. So if a squad is forced to walk back half of the map it's a fault both of the team and the SL of that squad, because the defence of the FB was either non-existant or insufficiently supported when being attacked and the formerly mentioned SL didn't lead his squad correctly, so that he neither managed to stay alive nor to organise the rest of the squad to get him revived.

[Roguehellhound]

While the Non RP is nice, I thought the idea of respawning and rally points/fobs are to imitate a larger force?

A 6 man squad does not accurately represent the force how IRL military operates.


Why not have 50percent casualty rule? If you lose 3 or more squad members, your rally goes down. Keeps the pace of the fight up and going instead of even more drawn out.

Inorder to effectively test out the No rallypoints i think you might want to add or re add more transport assets. You cannot gauge how effective it is by just taking out certain things and tweaking others.

Is it possible to limit how many spawns you can have on a rally? like say 8-12? kinda like a real squad. After that the rally goes away, the benefits are you actually imitate a squad size element. Keeps players on the edge and counting how many spawns or "reinforcements" they have while keeping the pace of battle. Another benefit is you still have the limited rally so a good working squad that overpowered and destroyed the enemy still gains advantages without having to kill the enemy in waves.(in reference to RP's are like siege machines)

While increasing the FOB's are nice, still does not help when a player is using Ventrilo or Teamspeak and relaying Key locations. RP's help by being a constant random, no definite location.
While I've seen plenty of times where the enemy would just solo a humvee up to a cache or FOB and kill it.

just my 2 cents, but yea keep up the great work guys !!

[HunterMed]

those changes make sense...especially the RP time.

will try asap

[dbzao]

0) What's the interval between RP placement?

Same as in 0.874, interval of 2 min between RPs. If we see the RPs being used in exploitive ways, like SL + 1 staying back and pumping out troops to die and repeat, we will consider increasing that number.

1) How close do enemies need to be to prevent RP placement?

Varies by map size and quantity of enemies, between 50-100 meters. My suggestion is don't think about a specific number, but move to a safe position, not the closest position you can go without the enemy being close.

2) If an RP is placed and enemies approach, will it disappear as it used to or will it now re-require a knife?

Yes, it will disappear by enemy presence if they approach it before the 30s have passed. That's another reason to not try to do it when you know they are too close. Fall back to safety.

3) How many squad members are required to have an Officer kit?

Same as in 0.874, a squad of 2 can get an Officer kit.

4) How many squad members are required to place a RP and how close must they be to the Officer?

Same as in 0.874, SL + 1 SM ~ 25m close.

5) You say 3 SM's to REQUEST kits; does that also include spawning with the medic/Auto rifle squad?

Yes, same limitation of a squad of 3 is required to spawn with the medic/saw kit.

[gazzthompson]

This seems like a really good inbetween, promoting falling back and the use of the officer kit. sounds great, cant wait to play it.

[akatabrask]

How much I like to see the teams being more dependent on firebases I can see past their vulnerability.
A big problem right now is that no more than one soldier needs to sneak up to the firebase, knife it and throw an incendiary grenade (or two if he/she wants to prevent it from being rebuilt) and thus one person alone has successfully taken away one of the more important assets to the enemy team.
I can admit I've done this myself and I've seen lots of other people using this tactic.

In my opinion this is even more unrealistic than the rally points since in my eyes, the FBs are a point, preferably defended/-able where the "invisible supply lines" can deploy reserves/new squads (therefor allowing spawning) -> simulation of supply lines that the bf2 engine can't simulate. And sure, perhaps one person could sabotage these supply lines but that would be some form of saboteur/spec-ops unit which no longer exists in pr. Rather, the presence of a WHOLE enemy squad by a now deserted/overrun fire base could actively deny enemies from deploying in that area.

So one thing I would like to see is some sort of flag-ish like firebases where something like the presence of >~3-4 enemies /a ~1:2 of enemies-to friendlies-within-a-certain-radius ratio would make a firebase unspawnable. A ratio of 3:2 would destroy/remove/overrun the firebase either immediately or with a certain delay dependent on the enemies:friendlies ratio. This would imo be a more realistic overrunning of a defended point than the current knife-the-radio method (which I always have been hating btw since it can be exploited easily).

Wow, just realized this probably is rather off topic. But meh, relevant enough to not get its own thread.

[Pesticide]

Will we get more anti building grenades or ways to destroy contructions with the increased focus on forward bases and contructions ?

or an easier way to destroy crates as now one crate can become a base , making it imperative all crates are destroyed

[Threedroogs]

i'll have to check out the new changes (obviously) before i know how they're going to play out, but i dont like the new RP mechanics.

this almost seems like it's bringing the SL spawnpoint back. the SL and one SM will be able to hang back and send an endless 4 man attack on a target from any angle.

like i said, i will have to play it to see how it works, but on paper, i dont like it at all. perhaps if you cant put an RP within 200m of an enemy it might work.

<edit> and maybe having a 10 minute reset timer on the RP instead of a 2 minute one would help prevent SLs from just hiding in a bush 100m from the action. the current system is going to encourage SLs to avoid the fight at all costs, which isnt going to be good for gameplay, in my opinion.

<edit2> i also think it should take the SL + 3 SM to set the RP. a squad that gets half wiped out (or more) doesnt deserve to respawn into the same area.

[maarit]

is there change to change that one server is just insurgency and one just aas?
because just right now 3 servers has insurgency.

[Artnez]

0) What's the interval between RP placement?

Same as in 0.874, interval of 2 min between RPs. If we see the RPs being used in exploitive ways, like SL + 1 staying back and pumping out troops to die and repeat, we will consider increasing that number.

1) How close do enemies need to be to prevent RP placement?

Varies by map size and quantity of enemies, between 50-100 meters. My suggestion is don't think about a specific number, but move to a safe position, not the closest position you can go without the enemy being close.

2) If an RP is placed and enemies approach, will it disappear as it used to or will it now re-require a knife?

Yes, it will disappear by enemy presence if they approach it before the 30s have passed. That's another reason to not try to do it when you know they are too close. Fall back to safety.

3) How many squad members are required to have an Officer kit?

Same as in 0.874, a squad of 2 can get an Officer kit.

4) How many squad members are required to place a RP and how close must they be to the Officer?

Same as in 0.874, SL + 1 SM ~ 25m close.

5) You say 3 SM's to REQUEST kits; does that also include spawning with the medic/Auto rifle squad?

Yes, same limitation of a squad of 3 is required to spawn with the medic/saw kit.

The fact that you started the list with '0' did not go unnoticed

[Rotta]

Squad Rally Points expire after 30s from being placed.

I would rather have RPs demanding at least 50% of the squad in its "influence". By this, I mean both living and death players: In a squad of six players you could have two dead soldiers queueing to RP. They spawn if one more dead player enters the queue, or one living squad mate comes to a radius of, say, 30 metres. The only exception would obviously have to be two-men squads, requiring both the soldiers.