Screen-Door Transparency

[mebel]

It's more a question than a suggestion.
Is such transparency possible within PR engine? This may be used eg. to hide or limit the visibility of models hiding in grass etc to mitigate the effect of the outstanding player models over a distance, where scene is simplified.

Examples:
https://digitalrune.github.io/DigitalRu ... 40ab1e.htm

[Grump/Gump.45]

+1 vote from here on this effect. At distance things look suspect and not obvious when it comes to military uniforms that match terrain color.

Thinking on the visual effects of distortion at a distance to the eyes, even through a scope at distance.

If you are matching the camouflage uniform to specific terrain colors on the environment (not standing in muddy melted snow area, while wearing snow camouflage etc) you should not have an outstanding outline at all. But you could look like an un-melted snow patch in mud at a distance until your body comes into focus.

Olive drab can blend into brown muddy ground by the darkness of the Olive drab, so I would like increased effectiveness there. But obviously does better in greenery.

Please +1 on the effect.

Make this effect really start while crouched or prone. Not in unvegetated desert textures, only green and muddy brown ground.

Only time it works when standing is under condition of blending into your background by matching your uniform color to terrain by standing in the right spots. You have stand in front of what matches your uniform.

Its funny you used a blue barrel as an example. I used that barrel once as Chinese on Bora Bora with their blue uniform.
at a distance you wouldn't be able to tell except for our heads. Where is the shader man?

[papadanku]

It's possible

[mebel]

On top of that, the provided images are example of ordered dithering, however the patterns could be also non-ordered (random) so it would be more natural-looking, example on the right:

Make this effect really start while crouched or prone. Not in unvegetated desert textures, only green and muddy brown ground.

Only time it works when standing is under condition of blending into your background by matching your uniform color to terrain by standing in the right spots. You have stand in front of what matches your uniform.

I think the initial implementation should only be distance-dependent, uniformly in all circumstances, to remove unnecessary complexity when implementing and testing in live game. Then making it covering only the bottom of silhouette or anything else more sophisticated can be considered.

The thing with models on a distance is also that the models are much darker than the surroundings - because of lighting. Ground is usually well lit due its surface orientation, while models have surfaces that are shaded. So you might have textures that blends into terrain in theory, but the model would be still darker. The solution here would be to reduce the difference between lit and shaded parts, or to disable model lighting, I don't really know but I can tell that in any game the model on a distance is usually darker due to the mean of surfaces orientation. In addition shadows are also not well presented on the distance (i'm talking about newer engines), but shading is still a thing, thus models stand-out even more because of that.

Anyway, the dithering should do the trick, and can also mitigate this aforementioned issue, and can be applicable on any type of terrain/uniform combination.

[Grump/Gump.45]

On top of that, the provided images are example of ordered dithering, however the patterns could be also non-ordered (random) so it would be more natural-looking, example on the right:


The thing with models on a distance is also that the models are much darker than the surroundings - because of lighting. Ground is usually well lit due its surface orientation, while models have surfaces that are shaded. So you might have textures that blends into terrain in theory, but the model would be still darker. The solution here would be to reduce the difference between lit and shaded parts, or to disable model lighting, I don't really know but I can tell that in any game the model on a distance is usually darker due to the mean of surfaces orientation. In addition shadows are also not well presented on the distance (i'm talking about newer engines), but shading is still a thing, thus models stand-out even more because of that.

.

There are a bunch of S's when it comes to camouflage. Shadow, scrim, shape, speed, skyline, silhouette, spacing, shine, sound.

On the map Saaremaa, the USMC MARPAT stands out if you are not in shadows, when in shadows it becomes darker. In real life, say if you wore olive drab or coyote brown, no camo pattern, if you get under leaf shadows then it forms a unique pattern over you. This cannot be done in Project Reality, as the shadows are solid masses. But the shadows still work.

It goes above my head how this will be in game versus real life. Brent0331 YouTube channel has 100s of camouflage effectiveness videos in a playlist. If it will help you visualize. What you see in the camera versus your eyes would be different.

This comes down to rendering body models over distance, then more aspects and capabilities I don't know about for making video games.

[mebel]

It's possible

Any chance to create and test any prove of concept?

[Grump/Gump.45]

Going from left to right, top to bottom on your barrel pictures. It should be #5 as maximum, between #1 and #5 is where this would operate, we don't want to be fighting quantum phantoms in game. In desert at 500+ meters, in woodland/jungle at 100-200 meters.

Try to make this shader not cost more performance. If wearing a camouflage pattern, if you match the terrain color by standing in the right spots you should not stand out. Shadow should do this too a bit. Find what looks realistic.

Its less player render over distance, so theoretically, with my lack of knowledge on coding, not knowing the coding effects, it shouldn't cost more performance of FPS or stutter because this would reduce the effort on the game to render a player. I hope it would work this way. But results are results.

[papadanku]

Any chance to create and test any prove of concept?

Yes, but I am busy right now

[mebel]

Yes, but I am busy right now

No need to rush, thank you for taking this idea under consideration.

[mebel]

By the way, as you can se in following image:

The grass covers up to a half of a height of a BTR wheel, such thing could be mimicked by proposed screen-door transparency technique. Of course applied on a distant models.

[bad_nade]

Vegetation is already quite good concealment in PR. Screen-Door Transparency would be more suitable for distant objects, or objects in shadow (if possible).

[mebel]

Vegetation is already quite good concealment in PR. Screen-Door Transparency would be more suitable for distant objects, or objects in shadow (if possible).

Yes, what I am proposing is to apply it to distant objects, beyond certain distance. The previous photo is to show that vegetation obscures things, and irl that doesn't change over a distance - the grass is still there, concealing things.

[Mats391]

I am not sure the transparency would be suitable for this. It would be applied to everything past a certain distance regardless of vegitation. So even in desert it would fade out

[mebel]

I am not sure the transparency would be suitable for this. It would be applied to everything past a certain distance regardless of vegitation. So even in desert it would fade out

However even in the desert we can observe that player models are outstanding over a distance.

[Grump/Gump.45]

If pixelation, blur or "transparency" are not options. What about fade? Fading the player based on distance and light. Messing around with different light settings, different distances. Naked eye, scope and binoculars.

This is probably the hardest thing, matching perception of real life visuals into a game, which is subjectively different for most people. To an acceptable level we all agree on, but this isn't some regular person in a grassy field wearing a red shirt walking their dog, this is camouflage.

In the desert sun when you cast a shadow, it makes you more visible, directly above or efven more when you are between sun and enemy. Even while prone. Not worried about desert. Shadows anywhere can get you spotted, any inconsistency in areas of concealment a good eye can spot. But desert is very easy

Well the most frustrating thing is being seen while using vegetation as back drop. Especially as factions without painted skin on face and hands. Gloves or anything.

The white stands out that much. Russian pixel camouflage matches the low hanging evergreen branches that like umbrella out with direct ground contact. But their face and hands give them away, like a suspicious spec to target in the vegatation.

Then all the snow trees, their branches don't touch the ground, the branches don't act weighed down, not good for camouflage.

Then the trash piles, the static ones on Sbeneh outskirts, why did you guys have to make them shorter? I loved hiding in trash piles ambushing enemy. Its their fault for not shooting the trash. The trash pile doesn't even render that far, only as far as the games short grass. Its like trash bags and rubbish pile in middle of the street. Do I need to dive into trash to show its possible to camouflage a fighter this way? A trash ghillie suit?

So many things can be done to avoid being seen. Play dead, climb trees, bushes, trash. Making every tree act like a rope, or just making E allow you to climb certain objects you are in contact with. It would take less time and effort to get people fighting from trees. I have found 2 types of trees we can climb.